Damage "taxes" deserve serious reconsideration

[Keichi]

Physicaly ranger need to make less dmg, as meele and caster. Because, there exist phases in dungeon, where the other two can not attack for a short while.

The hort of Nidhoogs second Boss has a phase, where you need to run in a circle. There is nearly to no time to cast at last long spells. The great libary of hw has as final Boss someone, who create range aoe and close aoe. Phases,where meele can not attack (or not strong) and where caster need to run for a short time. Than his run phase, where meele and caster can not attack (at last, not much).
The new 90er ini create multiple aoe, where caster are forced to move or where meele can not effectivly attack.
Zodiaks savage dmg test create 4 orbs, where meele can not probally attack 2 of them, thanks of aoe.

The second Boss of the new pandaemonium has a circle phase, where you need to run and can not use much, spells or positions attacks.

In all this example can ranger attack the whole time (even, when it can be a pain to move and attack at the same time). So, it is only fair, that they make lesser dmg as the rest.

Maybe it looks a little differently in the savage content (dont know them, i dont have good enough equipment yet - it make only sense to start it, when your ilvl is around 615 or more, lesser make you to weak- and savage is all the time such a pain -and dont have a group for it-).
But at last in the normal content exist enough example, where the lesser dmg of ranger is only fair (but, i agree that it becomes a pain, if your two dd both are ranger).

[Picker]

Uh there is enough time for a sps blm to slide cast f4 when hegemone does her circle move. There’s also triplecast. I dunno why your hung up on all this supposed downtime

[Keiisuke]

Physicaly ranger need to make less dmg, as meele and caster. Because, there exist phases in dungeon, where the other two can not attack for a short while.

The hort of Nidhoogs second Boss has a phase, where you need to run in a circle. There is nearly to no time to cast at last long spells. The great libary of hw has as final Boss someone, who create range aoe and close aoe. Phases,where meele can not attack (or not strong) and where caster need to run for a short time. Than his run phase, where meele and caster can not attack (at last, not much).
The new 90er ini create multiple aoe, where caster are forced to move or where meele can not effectivly attack.
Zodiaks savage dmg test create 4 orbs, where meele can not probally attack 2 of them, thanks of aoe.

The second Boss of the new pandaemonium has a circle phase, where you need to run and can not use much, spells or positions attacks.

In all this example can ranger attack the whole time (even, when it can be a pain to move and attack at the same time). So, it is only fair, that they make lesser dmg as the rest.

Maybe it looks a little differently in the savage content (dont know them, i dont have good enough equipment yet - it make only sense to start it, when your ilvl is around 615 or more, lesser make you to weak- and savage is all the time such a pain -and dont have a group for it-).
But at last in the normal content exist enough example, where the lesser dmg of ranger is only fair (but, i agree that it becomes a pain, if your two dd both are ranger).

You are mostly talking about old/outdated content where you don't need any sort of DPS requirement, you can literally watch Netflix and chill during it, it won't be a problem to clear.

Concerning the few new mechanics that require a lot of movement, the stacks of true north are there to erase this inconvenience.

The new content is acknowledged by the developers as designed to specifically reduce stress on melee (via huge hitboxes and/or positional removal), thus removing all advantages of being able to attack from a distance, without any form of compensation to ranged DPS or casters.

[Keichi]

Because they are example.
When he is doing his circle move, i have in most time only the time to cast one f4 (and, not every blm is sps). And, he is moving faster, as the chara can move, if you dont use run. And using run and than trying to cast make running useless.

Yes, there is fast casting skills. But they are not allways ready and not every caster has 4x this skills. Im not able to attack in most cases (or only a limited times, i dont know how it looks by the summoner, he can cast fast, but at last for ruin did he need to stand still). Ranger can attack the whole time without extra skill. Meele can not use position.
So, the example are legitim.

[Rilifane]

Then provide a meaningful example because old dungeon bosses aren't it.
And you forget that no class has their full toolkit at that level range and we had countless class and mechanic changes over the years so it's even more meaningless to bring up an old dungeon boss of all things. But since you are fond of them... Nidhogg has a hitbox that is basically the entire platform - I'm sure melees struggle really hard there.

No, old dungeon bosses are not a legitimate reason for taxes existing.
In which world do you balance around a freaking old leveling dungeon instead of endgame? Dungeons which have absolutely no requirements for which classes you end up with. Dbl DNC? Dbl DRG? It all happens and it's all fine. Overwriting each others buffs when you have doubles is a bigger dps loss than anything you brought up.

And you can cover the spinny phase just fine on both melee and caster.
How about not running outside? If you stay close to mid while dodging the cones you can in fact easily cast your Fire IVs. You can even easily hit all side positions if you stay closer to the back cone and simple TN if you should have a back positional.
Not to mention it happens once in the fight. Sooo... try again?

[Supersnow845]

Then provide a meaningful example because old dungeon bosses aren't it.
And you forget that no class has their full toolkit at that level range and we had countless class and mechanic changes over the years so it's even more meaningless to bring up an old dungeon boss of all things. But since you are fond of them... Nidhogg has a hitbox that is basically the entire platform - I'm sure melees struggle really hard there.

No, old dungeon bosses are not a legitimate reason for taxes existing.
In which world do you balance around a freaking old leveling dungeon instead of endgame? Dungeons which have absolutely no requirements for which classes you end up with. Dbl DNC? Dbl DRG? It all happens and it's all fine. Overwriting each others buffs when you have doubles is a bigger dps loss than anything you brought up.

Level 70 SMN in ultimates basically invalidates any argument the devs care even a shred about balancing for anything besides level 90 (which they should)

That class is just hilariously broken in level 70 content

[CKNovel]

The hort of Nidhoogs second Boss has a phase, where you need to run in a circle. There is nearly to no time to cast at last long spells. The great libary of hw has as final Boss someone, who create range aoe and close aoe. Phases,where meele can not attack (or not strong) and where caster need to run for a short time. Than his run phase, where meele and caster can not attack (at last, not much).

The second Boss of the new pandaemonium has a circle phase, where you need to run and can not use much, spells or positions attacks.

Let's use relevant content, yes?
Nidhogg in Dragonsong Reprise:

All mechanics can be done at melee range.
And this applies to nearly every phase.

As for P6 you can just wait for the aoe to explode and then go through. This mechanics also doesn't exist in savage.
It's not lack of time to cast or keep uptime, it's literally skill issue.

Content in previous expansions isn't relevant anymore. Jobs that got a rework don't have a full kit.
Back in SB, MCH had no tools to control heat in any lv60 content for example.

[Supersnow845]

Niddhog in Dragonsong Reprise:

All mechanics can be done at melee range.

As for P6 you can just wait for the aoe to explode and then go through. This mechanics also doesn't exist in savage.
It's not lack of time to cast or keep uptime, it's literally skill issue.

Content in previous expansions isn't relevant anymore. Jobs that got a rework don't have a full kit.
Back in SB, MCH had no tools to control heat in any lv60 content.

I do love my melee fantasy of whacking at empty air 10 yalms away from the actual boss model, works absolute wonders for P6, thank you square for making my fantasy a reality

[Ransu]

Ranged tax never applied to casters. Not sure why OP clumped them into it. It was always the physical range because they essentially had 100% uptime while being able to do mechanics. This isn't really an issue with EW as they have blown up the the boss hit boxes giving melee uptime 99% of the time.

The utility tax isn't arbitrary. Imagine if SAM or BLM had raid utility with the already current dps they pump out. There's no way they could leave them with the dps output they have while having a raid buff.

[Dzian]

I've said before the problem comes from surviv in my opinion. If you follow the traditions for example.

A melee dps hits hard and consistently but has enough armour and toughness to take a some hits or splash damage.. allow them to keep up sustained damage

Casters typically hit harder than melee but lack mobility. And there survival comes at a cost of dps. Either by having to move or by casting shields or crowd control spells like heavies binds sleeps etc enabling them to keep mobs at a safe distance.

Physical ranged classes are the ones that should hit super hard and they are typically super mobile. But they have incredibly limited survivability. A leaf falling from a tree could cripple them. These jobs always used to be dubbed glass cannons as a result.

The problem xiv has its everything has the survival of a melee which is in part why healers have so little to do. And in order to accommodate that they've destroyed role dynamics.