Online Store is Getting Worse!

[IkaraGreydancer]

Maybe I'm just weird but the game alone provides far more than mogstation ever will and with that in mind I don't see the issue here.

Mogstation is far removed from the game and isn't shoved in your face by any means. So if this is deemed predatory is on the lowest scale. If the cost is to high for you for whatever reason do what I and many others do and simply don't buy it

[Illmaeran]

Mogstation is far removed from the game and isn't shoved in your face by any means. So if this is deemed predatory is on the lowest scale. If the cost is to high for you for whatever reason do what I and many others do and simply don't buy it

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

[Bukachu]

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

Isnt sub 15 euros? am I stupid for paying that much?

[Saraide]

I'll argue that it's not predatory at all and people are using the term in a way that doesn't fit this game. Mogstation items are purely optional and cosmetic, and as such give no substantive benefit to the player. Predatory sales tactics are those in which the developer intentionally makes items that give substantive benefits to the player and design the game in such a way that said benefits are necessary to play the game at a more than sub-standard level. Predatory is a "create a problem then sell the solution" situation, or in other terms, design the game so the player is forced to spend money to make up for design deficiencies. In addition to that, having monetization schemes where the currency the person buys is in portions that are either insufficient or way more than is needed to buy items; forcing the player to spend much more than is necessary to get said item.

This game has plenty of items, emotes, mounts, minions, and dyes available strictly though in-game activities that one need not buy anything to get full benefit from their game purchase and subscription. If SE want to charge a premium price for luxury items that's up to them. It's up to the player to decide if that item is worth the price, aka has value to them. It may be distasteful to many to have a cash shop in a game that requires a purchase and subscription, but it's in now way predatory.


As a previous poster said; Mogstation purchases subsidize people who don't buy from it as the extra revenue helps keep sub costs down. Think what you will of people who buy Mogstation stuff, have extra retainers, or both, but realize they're the ones keeping your sub from hitting the $15 per month standard of other subscription models out there.

The "just cosmetics" argument is complete nonsense. The biggest most sought after rewards in this game are all cosmetic in nature, ilvl holds very little value in the long term. Ultimate weapons, relics and savage gear are primarily useful as glams, savage mounts are purely cosmetic.

[Illmaeran]

Isnt sub 15 euros? am I stupid for paying that much?

I don't know what a sub costs in Euros, but I don't think you're stupid for paying it if you enjoy playing the game.

The "just cosmetics" argument is complete nonsense. The biggest most sought after rewards in this game are all cosmetic in nature, ilvl holds very little value in the long term. Ultimate weapons, relics and savage gear are primarily useful as glams, savage mounts are purely cosmetic.

The point of the paragraph you quoted from is that the Mogstation is not predatory, given the context of what I said in that paragraph. Purely optional and cosmetic, not "just cosmetics". I disagree that the argument of mogstation items being optional and cosmetic in nature is nonsense. I agree that the items most desirable over the long term are so due to their cosmetic potential. Reading between the lines, I get the message that because things in the game are highly sought after for their cosmetic qualities the Mogstation is a bad thing because it sells items for cosmetic purposes; therefore, making the sale of things bad because people do in-game activities to get cosmetic items. Am I understanding that correctly?

On the topic of mounts, I agree that they are a cosmetic thing. Given how a person acquires them, they give visual proof that the person riding it has accomplished something in the game; whether that be trials, dungeons, PoTD, or what have you. We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

The sort of item you referred to are all available in the game, through in-game actions, and are not sold on the Mogstation. Also, some of the items in question, such as armor and weapons, have substantive benefit to the player. We're not seeing items that provide anything other than cosmetic benefit being sold on the Mogstation. Therefore, the Mogstation doesn't fit the definition of predatory I provided. We may disagree on the definition of predatory, but we must agree that everything sold on the Mogstation is optional, cosmetic in nature, and has no substantive impact on the game, barring the Fenris motorcycle's speed thing.

Which seeing it written down sounds a lot more reasonable (2 bil? Really?) .

The Yen to US dollar conversion is usually around 100:1, so 237 million USD is roughly equal to 237 billion Yen. It's really easy to see the 2 billion and think it's in USD rather than Yen, which is likely the cause of misunderstanding/mis-stating reported income.

[Saraide]

I don't know what a sub costs in Euros, but I don't think you're stupid for paying it if you enjoy playing the game.



The point of the paragraph you quoted from is that the Mogstation is not predatory, given the context of what I said in that paragraph. Purely optional and cosmetic, not "just cosmetics". I disagree that the argument of mogstation items being optional and cosmetic in nature is nonsense. I agree that the items most desirable over the long term are so due to their cosmetic potential. Reading between the lines, I get the message that because things in the game are highly sought after for their cosmetic qualities the Mogstation is a bad thing because it sells items for cosmetic purposes; therefore, making the sale of things bad because people do in-game activities to get cosmetic items. Am I understanding that correctly?

On the topic of mounts, I agree that they are a cosmetic thing. Given how a person acquires them, they give visual proof that the person riding it has accomplished something in the game; whether that be trials, dungeons, PoTD, or what have you. We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

The sort of item you referred to are all available in the game, through in-game actions, and are not sold on the Mogstation. Also, some of the items in question, such as armor and weapons, have substantive benefit to the player. We're not seeing items that provide anything other than cosmetic benefit being sold on the Mogstation. Therefore, the Mogstation doesn't fit the definition of predatory I provided. We may disagree on the definition of predatory, but we must agree that everything sold on the Mogstation is optional, cosmetic in nature, and has no substantive impact on the game, barring the Fenris motorcycle's speed thing.

I think you definition of what qualifies as predatory monetization is a bad one because it only considers pay to win aspects. In reality looking good and showing off is a considerable driving force in any game that allows for customization, the acquisition of that is evidently only one aspect of it. If the acquisition was the only thing that mattered no one would buy mogstation stuff for their looks. It would only be a questionable means to show off wealth. It is then no surprise any greedy salesperson would drive up prices on what people care for most and within their own game they have an absolute monopoly.

You say that everything sold on the mogstation has no substantive impact on the game (excluding the bike) but looking good has a substantive impact on our enjoyment of games in general.

[Clover_Blake]

You say that everything sold on the mogstation has no substantive impact on the game (excluding the bike) but looking good has a substantive impact on our enjoyment of games in general.

Personally, I would understand this argument if the game didn't already offer a huge variety of great glamour options. But it does. Glamours are my favourite part of the game and I for one am very satisfied with the amount and quality we get.

If it comes down to people simply wanting to own EVERYTHING, I think that's people's problem.

[Jojoya]

I think you definition of what qualifies as predatory monetization is a bad one because it only considers pay to win aspects. In reality looking good and showing off is a considerable driving force in any game that allows for customization, the acquisition of that is evidently only one aspect of it. If the acquisition was the only thing that mattered no one would buy mogstation stuff for their looks. It would only be a questionable means to show off wealth. It is then no surprise any greedy salesperson would drive up prices on what people care for most and within their own game they have an absolute monopoly.

You say that everything sold on the mogstation has no substantive impact on the game (excluding the bike) but looking good has a substantive impact on our enjoyment of games in general.

If all of the "free" gear looked like crap in the game and the only way to get good looking gear was to pay extra on the cash shop, you'd have a good example of predatory monetization.

That's not what is happening with FFXIV. It's a small percentage of cosmetic options that are only available through the cash shop, and most of those on the shop are to give JP/NA/EU players access to past event and China/Korean "exclusives".

Not buying from the cash shop does not prevent anyone from looking good. It just prevents them from using a relative handful of specific looks. We've got hundreds of looks to choose from that are available directly from game play so it's not predatory monetization.

[Stormpeaks]

If all of the "free" gear looked like crap in the game and the only way to get good looking gear was to pay extra on the cash shop, you'd have a good example of predatory monetization.

That's not what is happening with FFXIV. It's a small percentage of cosmetic options that are only available through the cash shop, and most of those on the shop are to give JP/NA/EU players access to past event and China/Korean "exclusives".

Not buying from the cash shop does not prevent anyone from looking good. It just prevents them from using a relative handful of specific looks. We've got hundreds of looks to choose from that are available directly from game play so it's not predatory monetization.

Considering you are the person who said that island was long lasting content and repeatable by "changing the places of the landmarks and swapping their spot", this post is not a surprise in any way.

Compare the store glams and in game glams and tell me the quality of the in game ones is anywhere near the shop ones.

Also "a small percentage" is laughable

[SturmChurro]

We know that someone on the Nightmare mount has put in the time and effort to get it and we respect the player for that. We also know that someone riding the Megashiba bought it and as such, don't hold that player in regard the same way we do a player with the Nightmare mount. Yes, both are cosmetic, but I would argue their cosmetic importance is based on the mode of acquisition, not the mount itself.

Cosmetic importance is a big factor, otherwise people would literally not buy most cash shop mounts. The mode of acquisition is certainly a factor, but if something that isn't desirable is locked behind a grind, or achievement, less and less people will do it. There will always be collectors and the like out there, but the more aesthetically pleasing something is, generally, plays a big factor. Similarly, if something very desirable is locked behind low chance in a lootbox or the like (gacha games?), for example, people will feel a very similar sense of 'prestige' for having this item.