Tales from the Dawn #3: "A Question of Life" (Hermes)

[Brinne]

The only differences I see are that Amaurot tries to lessen differences enough so there isn't much fighting between people, while Sharlayan lets you be yourself for good or ill.

There are various points of your comparisons I don't quite agree with the basis upon, but I want to point to this in particular as, this isn't really a strict binary or a yes/no thing. People can "be themselves" while learning to channel their authentic impulses into less destructive avenues than they might via running on pure instinct or id. Maybe an adrenaline junkie is going to be an adrenaline junkie, but will they channel that into physical violence against others, or through - will their society be able to help guide them towards - controlled means like intense sports or similar hobbies? There's a spectrum, nuance, and compromise to be had - as in all things when dealing with human beings.

That's not to say Amaurot is perfect and Sharlayan is evil - not remotely - but Sharlayan obviously has places where it exerts (forceful, even) control over its members and populace, and Amaurot has avenues and cultural aspects where it encourages differences of perspective and the nurturing of creativity. It's kinda reductive to toss one into one category and the other into the opposing one.

[Iscah]

The similarities between Sharlayan and Amaurot (and Labyrinthos and Elpis) just make the whole thing more disjointed again. In one scene they seem to be wanting you to think "the ancients and their attitudes to creatures are scary; you shouldn't want the world to be like that", and then in another you have the modern-day researchers sending you on the same types of quests like it's supposed to be a parallel.

I have to wonder how much involvement the sidequest writers have with the main plot writers, or whether it could somehow come from them getting minimal instructions about what the mood of the MSQ is going to be like, and just have to go and figure out their own thing for the worldbuilding. It's the only way I could picture them coming up with these strangely discordant pieces, like they were all supposed to make a seamless whole and instead have pursued their own ideas and made individual parts that don't quite mesh with each other.

[Vyrerus]

I'd never want to live in Sharlayan. Their pacifist nature is extremely troubling. Especially given how powerful their mages are in the world of FFXIV. If they'd helped the Eorzean Alliance far earlier, instead of scouring their own colony when The Empire invaded Ala Mhigo Louisoix along with thousands of other people might still be alive. I also still hate Fourchenault, a man who could look his progeny dead in the eyes and tell them essentially, "Nothing, no one, is worth going to war for." (He actually framed it as a question, something along the lines of, "What would be worth going to war for? Nothing!) No matter how much the story has shied away from this to just tell us how much he worries over his kids and loves them... I'll never like the guy. Nor his society by extension (though its aesthetics minus the stupid Forum robes are very pleasing to me).

If it weren't for the Scions and the WoL and the Eorzean Alliance including its Far Eastern allies, then Sharlayan wouldn't get to enjoy its society. In fact, if we want to step into the realm of supposition, you could say that without the Empire being a unifying threat, other nations might even look towards Sharlayan to take what they have (How's pacifism going to serve them then?). Of course, this is a largely happy ending sort of story, so I doubt we'll see anything like that (at least from anyone from The Source).

Compared to Amaurotine society, which is post-war, post-disease, and post-scarcity... the choice is easy. Though honestly, I don't like the Ancients' robes either. The mask thing is sorta cool.

All in all though, if I had to live anywhere in FFXIV assuming I gained no special powers just by living there, then I'd probably choose Terncliff or some other Imperial province. Largely due to it having Magitek. Things like street lamps, along with other appliances similar to contemporary ones I enjoy IRL. If I could gain powers though, then I'd like to live on the Ruby Sea. Maybe I could befriend the Kojin and get that water breathing blessing. Maybe get a sweet cutie wife from Sui-no-sato(maybe convince her to live on the surface with me cause I don't like Sui-no-sato's pacifism anymore than I do Sharlayan's).

[RyuDragnier]

I'd never want to live in Sharlayan. Their pacifist nature is extremely troubling. Especially given how powerful their mages are in the world of FFXIV. If they'd helped the Eorzean Alliance far earlier, instead of scouring their own colony when The Empire invaded Ala Mhigo Louisoix along with thousands of other people might still be alive. I also still hate Fourchenault, a man who could look his progeny dead in the eyes and tell them essentially, "Nothing, no one, is worth going to war for." (He actually framed it as a question, something along the lines of, "What would be worth going to war for? Nothing!) No matter how much the story has shied away from this to just tell us how much he worries over his kids and loves them... I'll never like the guy. Nor his society by extension (though its aesthetics minus the stupid Forum robes are very pleasing to me).

If it weren't for the Scions and the WoL and the Eorzean Alliance including its Far Eastern allies, then Sharlayan wouldn't get to enjoy its society. In fact, if we want to step into the realm of supposition, you could say that without the Empire being a unifying threat, other nations might even look towards Sharlayan to take what they have (How's pacifism going to serve them then?). Of course, this is a largely happy ending sort of story, so I doubt we'll see anything like that (at least from anyone from The Source).

Compared to Amaurotine society, which is post-war, post-disease, and post-scarcity... the choice is easy. Though honestly, I don't like the Ancients' robes either. The mask thing is sorta cool.

Amaurot didn't seem to be much better, considering they only had one representative to deal with threats to the star, Azem. They often didn't seem to intervene at all (judging from the first side story) until things were brought to their attention, often with Azem (Venat in this case) already having a solution for them. Outside of that, they too seemed to keep a hands off approach with the world with pacifism. Another comparison to be made between the two in a sense, except Sharlayan's closest comparison to having an Azem was basically Louisuix, and the Scions of the Seventh Dawn whom Sharlayan stayed away from until now in order to preserve their neutrality.

[Vyrerus]

Amaurot didn't seem to be much better, considering they only had one representative to deal with threats to the star, Azem. They often didn't seem to intervene at all (judging from the first side story) until things were brought to their attention, often with Azem (Venat in this case) already having a solution for them. Outside of that, they too seemed to keep a hands off approach with the world with pacifism. Another comparison to be made between the two in a sense, except Sharlayan's closest comparison to having an Azem was basically Louisuix, and the Scions of the Seventh Dawn whom Sharlayan stayed away from until now in order to preserve their neutrality.

We can't actually say whether or not Amaurotines were pacifists, because they lived in a post-war world. Sharlayan does not.

On an individual level, they seem to be fine with violence as problem resolution, should it come to it.

[RyuDragnier]

We can't actually say whether or not Amaurotines were pacifists, because they lived in a post-war world. Sharlayan does not.

On an individual level, they seem to be fine with violence as problem resolution, should it come to it.

Since they tried their hardest to avoid anything that caused actual major conflicts within Amaurot, and actively encouraged debate as a way to deal with disagreements, it's very possible they were. You wouldn't exactly take those steps unless you were trying to actively avoid conflict. Also, the violence they used seemed to be more towards creatures, not each other, except in very rare occasions, like us having to beat down Hermes so he could be scolded.

[KageTokage]

I can't help but wonder how long history stretched prior to the time of the Ancients, because it's mentioned that they created their paradise and things were not always as they were.

Perhaps they used to behave more like the sundered folk in some time still further past, and some manner of unpleasantry caused a large scale societal/cultural reform into their present state.

[Cleretic]

And yet the system seems to work, at least in-game. The two most stable nations in the game (Sharlyan and Amaurot) are both run by councils of unquestionable god-kings who only have to answer to themselves. Every other nation is either crumbling, has serious problems with corruption, or has inept leaders. Thankfully for those nations, they have the scions to show up and fix all of their problems, but Sharlyan was the only major modern nation we've encountered to not be in a state of major disarray when we arrived.

...what? Sharlayan isn't ruled by god-kings, it's ruled by politicians. You can vote those guys out if they suck. Granted, it doesn't look like Sharlayan's fantastic at that (that one forum member from the AST quests is still around), but it's still a check on power that isn't true for... honestly most of the civilizations we've been through. Only Ishgard and Ala Mhigo also have democracies, and Ishgard's structure is basically the worst democratic structure they could've picked.

Sharlayan's government also has the fallback of their politicians being mortal, with normal lifespans, so even without term limits that may or may not exist their rule is still finite. Granted, 'eventually they'll die' isn't the brightest silver lining, but that still provides hope that wouldn't be there with the Convocation, who only die when they want to. ...and I won't lie, is also a problem with Thavnair: I hope you continue being cool, Vrtra, because the moment you're not, Thavnair starts to be real uncomfortable.

[Absimiliard]

Their politicians may be mortal, but there's an awful lot of passing the torch to the same hand going on there. Families will tend to pass their ideals on to their progeny, and said progeny will typically succeed the parents when the time comes. What you wind up with is very similar mindsets being maintained across ages. It's not exactly the same as being ruled by a bunch of masked dudes that don't die until they decide to, but there will be a lot of functional similarities insofar as how things develop (or don't). Their desired (but not yet achieved) adherence to logic above all and stated belief in turning individuality to sameness should certainly serve as alarm bells if nothing else.

I'd be willing to put money on Sharlayan becoming another Amaurot somewhere way down the line. Eventually the spoken races will evolve into something akin to what they were before, but it's going to take a very long time. If Sharlayan so heavily resembles Amaurot now... well, to borrow an SE quote from a very long time ago, "Time flows like a river, and history repeats."

[SentioftheHoukai]

...what? Sharlayan isn't ruled by god-kings, it's ruled by politicians. You can vote those guys out if they suck. Granted, it doesn't look like Sharlayan's fantastic at that (that one forum member from the AST quests is still around), but it's still a check on power that isn't true for... honestly most of the civilizations we've been through. Only Ishgard and Ala Mhigo also have democracies, and Ishgard's structure is basically the worst democratic structure they could've picked.

Sharlayan's government also has the fallback of their politicians being mortal, with normal lifespans, so even without term limits that may or may not exist their rule is still finite. Granted, 'eventually they'll die' isn't the brightest silver lining, but that still provides hope that wouldn't be there with the Convocation, who only die when they want to. ...and I won't lie, is also a problem with Thavnair: I hope you continue being cool, Vrtra, because the moment you're not, Thavnair starts to be real uncomfortable.

Sharlayan politicians don't need to be immortal, you know why? It's called nepotism, my new-old friend. You know, the same thing people like to criticize the Convocation of Fourteen for?

What need have you for immortality when you can simply pass your position to a protege of your choosing? And if it's not that simple, engineering a situation where it IS that simple is all too easy. Politicians in the real world do this all the time, what's stopping Sharlayan?