GIVE CARBUNCLE SOMETHING TO DO/GIVE 90 SUMMONS GLAMOUR

[ty_taurus]

This rework is atrocious as someone who played and loved this job through ShB. They not only removed anything resembling a rotation, but SE also decided to delete pet interaction and make SMN a glorified physical ranged. So now a job known for its learning curve becomes a 1-2 job; this rework shows a complete disregard for the players that enjoyed XIV's previous iterations. On top of that, it's almost been 10 months since EW was released. We still don't know where they want to take this job, and it was left in this state with no communication is disheartening, to be honest.

I feel we need another rework in 7.0 at this point, one that uses want people liked about SMN before EW. Ie. Pet interactions, DoTs, etc.

It's moreso that this iteration of SMN feels incomplete, not broken. What we have mechanically feels like what any other job might have at level 60, not 90. Simply building upon this version of SMN can, in theory, resolve the overly simple rotation, though we'll ultimately have to see how they progress with the job. In regards to Carbuncle, though, I think the team needs to resolve whatever makes it currently impossible to keep Carbuncle out when the demi-primals are summoned. There's no reason for Carbuncle to need to be dismissed from a gameplay standpoint, and allowing him to stay out would give the developers the opportunity to inject more substance into him. It's just old code that's currently holding him back.

It would be nice if the old poison mage elements could be restored onto SCH since SCH is a hollow husk of a job currently with no rotation at all, that way the old rotation can live on.

[Flana]

It's moreso that this iteration of SMN feels incomplete, not broken.

It's both. New Summoner has inherited all of the problems of old Summoner without actually fixing anything. They didn't actually solve any problem with old design while also making it so simple to play a cat could get through the entire rotation.

[ty_taurus]

It's both. New Summoner has inherited all of the problems of old Summoner without actually fixing anything. They didn't actually solve any problem with old design while also making it so simple to play a cat could get through the entire rotation.

I disagree. SMN feeling like a level 50/60 job in a level 90 era is a big problem and contributes to the aggressive simplicity of the job which does need to be corrected, but it did eliminate several of old SMN's issues even if it may not have seemed worth the fix. ShB SMN was a disjointed mess that you made work, but had no real kit synergy. It was a garage sale of vestigial mechanics jammed together like a bunch of puzzle pieces that don't belong. The leveling experience of it was also a disaster--like you were learning a completely different job every few levels, and that also meant you had to know several different rotations in order to use SMN in synched content.

It might not feel as satisfying to use, but at the very least, it actually has a flow to it. Its biggest clunk is just the inability to keep Carbuncle summoned during Demi-primal summoning and is otherwise fairly flexible which is a good quality. It's a good foundation for a job, it's just that it shouldn't have launched in this incomplete state. Having almost a job for an entire expansion is an issue, one that will likely be fixed with the release of new expansions. That's not an excuse for being as simple as it is, but it has a direction at least.

[Supersnow845]

I disagree. SMN feeling like a level 50/60 job in a level 90 era is a big problem and contributes to the aggressive simplicity of the job which does need to be corrected, but it did eliminate several of old SMN's issues even if it may not have seemed worth the fix. ShB SMN was a disjointed mess that you made work, but had no real kit synergy. It was a garage sale of vestigial mechanics jammed together like a bunch of puzzle pieces that don't belong. The leveling experience of it was also a disaster--like you were learning a completely different job every few levels, and that also meant you had to know several different rotations in order to use SMN in synched content.

It might not feel as satisfying to use, but at the very least, it actually has a flow to it. Its biggest clunk is just the inability to keep Carbuncle summoned during Demi-primal summoning and is otherwise fairly flexible which is a good quality. It's a good foundation for a job, it's just that it shouldn't have launched in this incomplete state. Having almost a job for an entire expansion is an issue, one that will likely be fixed with the release of new expansions. That's not an excuse for being as simple as it is, but it has a direction at least.

The biggest problem of new SMN which old SMN didn’t have is the new SMN has absolutely no rotational flexibility (outside of primal summons but they are basically just fluff at this point because SMN is a phys ranged) which limits its direction, old SMN had too many disjointed pieces but was held together by the fact that between your choice of when to Demi summon and your tri-disaster DOT loop you could follow the direction of your rotation at any one time while also having the flexibility to work within it

New SMN absolutely needs a way to change when it summons its Demi’s, get potency out of ark mohn/revelation (which is crit variance on melees such a big deal but SMN and WHM it’s just the way it is) and give it a secondary mechanic (like DOT’s that allows it to keep track of where in its rotation it is when it is not summoning each Demi right on the minute mark

The “phoenix summons shiva ramuh and leviathan” would change nothing because astral flow isn’t enough to make each primal feel different, it would basically just be an aesthetic change

[ty_taurus]

The biggest problem of new SMN which old SMN didn’t have is the new SMN has absolutely no rotational flexibility (outside of primal summons but they are basically just fluff at this point because SMN is a phys ranged) which limits its direction, old SMN had too many disjointed pieces but was held together by the fact that between your choice of when to Demi summon and your tri-disaster DOT loop you could follow the direction of your rotation at any one time while also having the flexibility to work within it

New SMN absolutely needs a way to change when it summons its Demi’s, get potency out of ark mohn/revelation (which is crit variance on melees such a big deal but SMN and WHM it’s just the way it is) and give it a secondary mechanic (like DOT’s that allows it to keep track of where in its rotation it is when it is not summoning each Demi right on the minute mark

The “phoenix summons shiva ramuh and leviathan” would change nothing because astral flow isn’t enough to make each primal feel different, it would basically just be an aesthetic change

There are two abilities I think SMN needs to really help with its rotational flow:

1. An action that grants a random gemstone to you when you have 0 gemstones, something that allows you to save your Bahamut/Phoenix summon during like a dungeon run where you're at the last trash wave before the boss and don't want to start your next summon. It should only be usable when you have no gemstones otherwise you could use it to double or triple up on the strongest gemstone phase.

2. An action that consumes your gemstones to deal damage based on how many are left--deals less overall damage than the phase itself, but useful for when you can't get through a phase due to the enemy becoming untargetable, or if you have left over gemstones as you reach the next wave in a dungeon with your Bahamut/Phoenix summon.

These would add a bit more of that flexibility which would help. I also think Demi-Alexander could work as a longer cooldown that replaces one of your summons by choice. Normally you'd use it to replace whichever summon falls under any given buff window. Perhaps Summon Ravana and Summon Bismarck could be two stronger, slightly longer summons that take the place of Ifrit/Titan/Garuda & Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh after using Demi-Alexander.