Unpopular opinion on G'raha Tia (spoilers)

[Iyrnthota]

The Scions were a professional group, it's what made them interesting. I don't really think of most of them as friends to my player character I just don't feel affection for them and get on much better with the ones where the relationship is built on professional respect something absent from most of the cast now

I understand that the game allows and encourages some level of head canon, but after a certain point you're just playing an entirely different story to the rest of us.
Whilst you may only see them as coworkers, the game clearly positions them as your character's close friends.

[aveyond-dreams]

There can be a place for both serious/heavy moments in the story while also allowing for lighthearted or even fanservice-y scenes to break them up and give the player some relief. A story can't be enjoyable if there's just one singular tone throughout the whole way through. That's something I've always loved about the FF series in general, in that they incorporate negative and positive tonal shifts very well.

You are correct. However Endwalker was anything but well-paced or balanced in those respects. The Uber Eats/Burger scene, Ameliance playing Fairy Godmother and Cinderella-ing her kids outfits, the Loporrits, the second visit to Sharlayan – these things took so much away from the action and when paired with a cast that’s as poorly developed as the Scions there was no way it was going to work out. No other Final Fantasy game was as bad at this sort of balancing as Endwalker was – and before anyone makes the mistake of trying to cite FFIX as an example I will remind everyone that most if not all the humour in that game was both appropriate for that world’s setting, and actually served to accentuate the differences between cast members rather than reduce their uniqueness further. #

There also wasn't all that much fanservice for EW at all, imo. Or rather, it was balanced? Either way, you're kind of exaggerating. You make it seem like it was in our face in every cutscene when that isn't the case at all. They can't just make the story for one specific type of player. We all have varying interests when it comes to the MSQ and it's, quite frankly, selfish to say it should basically be cutout and stuck elsewhere. There are things I didn't particularly enjoy the whole MSQ through, but I wouldn't suggest removing them out because I'm aware that others actually like it. (I'm not that crazy about Y'shtola for one, but I know others really like her. Plus, she can be interesting and funny at times, so I let it slide.)

See the above paragraph I wrote. This expansion was supposed to be about the end of the world, and instead it was oversaturated with elements that had no place being as prominent as they were. Their treatment of this cast especially G’raha Tia, whose character arc regressed, made it an unpalatable experience for no small amount of people. A party full of scholars, all of which are ideologically homogenized, agreeing with each other on pretty much everything, with hardly anything between them to tell them apart. When the most prominent and expensive cutscenes like Estinien and his boot as well the burgers and tea swirling are taking up so much development time and costs, I can and will call it out at every opportunity.

The game would have been better without the slice of life interactions. This expansion more than any other should have been of the highest tension and full of thrills from start to finish. G’raha Tia and his burgers weren’t conducive to this. What was conducive to this was when he briefly reverted to the Crystal Exarch in Thavnair. But beyond that? Nothing of interest occurred with his character other than the scenes that took me out of FFXIV’s world and into the real one.

Stuff like the Hildibrand scenes were away from MSQ and battle content for a reason, and back in ARR people even criticized that quest where we had to figure out who was a Sylph and who wasn’t because players at the time considered the quest both a nuisance and a distraction from the action at the time. Now in Endwalker we’re seeing Hildibrand like scenes in the MSQ and he’s taken over the relic. It’s nothing short of unbelievable and feels like a direct betrayal of the elements that helped me find a place in FFXIV’s world, and now with those elements being downplayed to the degree they are it truly feels like the game shifted its target audience to an entirely different group of people.

Also, you're very presumptuous that all fans of a single character would all act the way you say. I enjoy characters with similar personalities to G'raha in other games or even anime, however to me he is very unique on his own and I don't see him as a pure list of tropes to latch on to. This goes for other characters that may be similar to him. I can acknowledge they're similar but I can still enjoy them to different extents based on the series they came from, quality of writing, style, character arc, etc. It's not all about just getting hot and bothered, lmao.

I’ve seen how many people acted across a variety of fandoms. Yes, I guarantee you they’d get over it eventually if G’raha Tia died once a new character releases for them to set their sights on, or they move on to other games/TV shows. That’s the way of things. Given how strange some FFXIV fans have acted over the years when it comes to these characters with some even creating whole shrines at fanfests to Haurchefant, it’s in SE’s best interest to keep these sort of people in check rather than letting them run rampant, throwing their weight around to prolong a character’s stay in the story for far longer than is necesary.

Actual question piggybacking off of the last line in this:

Is there some reason why masculine type characters (excluding Thancred and even he is kinda not necessarily what I mean) are hardly ever given a spotlight in the game? Like, do they think us as a playerbase will not be able to relate to a character built more masculine/bodybuilder type? I know we have Raubahn but like said already, he barely does anything. Also there seems to be a distinct lack of beards/facial hair amongst the main/secondary characters. Does Square just think we all want our men to look like teenagers forever or is facial hair really that hard to add to the game?

It definitely feels like the game has been self-selecting for a certain subset of player lately and it has made it all the more harder to appeal to people outside that demographic, especially now that the WoW exodus boost has long since passed. Unfortunately these same players that have been catered to continuously try to shut down or downplay others requests when it comes to more masculine options for both our characters and the NPCs that populate FFXIV’s world.
I agree with you that Thancred isn’t exactly all that physically impressive, to date the race that has the best balance and least drawbacks for males is probably Au Ra. However, I’d ideally like to play a Highlander with a straight nose and visible eyebrows. Roegadyn weren’t designed with what people who actually like playing large races like, and are relatively bland compared to their equivalents in other MMORPGs.

FFXIV isn’t doing anything brave or groundbreaking by treating its men the way it does, by limiting their appearance options to making men like Magnai jokes for the other subset of the playerbase to ridicule. In any case, in the real world there’s no way I could ever get the people I talk to into this game with characters like G’raha Tia put in the spotlight and the lack of other leading men with the qualities they want to see – Thancred’s colorless and flat design doesn’t appeal to many people and Estinien no longer fulfils the high elf / warrior fantasy that he did prior to the mistake that was giving him that ponytail.

I’ll link my thread that deals more with this subject matter here.

I don't know.. the Scions are entirely made up of overly serious characters and hypercapitalist Tataru.. Some levity in the group is probably necessary. It's nice to have someone eager to jump in the fray with you. He just wants to me the Robin to your Batman. He definitely struggles with boundaries but we all deal with people like that in our lives. Alphinaud behaves very similarly with Estinien. I feel like Aymeric is exactly the same. He is a borderline creep. Magnai is another. The game is full of characters like this. It's not a G'raha Tia thing.

It is worth remembering that G'raha's Exarch body is *ancient* and worn. The circumstances are dire. He intends to die for his cause. This had been weighing on him for a hundred years. The circumstances would definitely wear on the affable nature of his character, which existed in his younger CT quest self. To a lesser degree, but it's still there. Then suddenly you come along and you save the First and him while you're at it. He owes you everything, including his life and no one can convince him otherwise. He loves you.

And I don’t love him. I do not consent to his advances or any of his other inappropriate behavior. When he starts acting like the way he does, it makes me want to uninstall. If his fans want scenes like that then put them inside quests and get them out of the MSQ. Same goes for Hildibrand and the mistake that was made in tying him to the relic when he should have remained side content with little rewards apart from emotes and the occasional glamour set.

The Scions, for reasons that have been explained by myself and others, have reached the point where the last thing I’d describe them as is a serious group. And they are not my friends. Friends don’t behave around each other the way G’raha Tia does, nor would I bother hanging out with anyone as self-centred as Y’shtola. If what they were trying to do was make us think we’re friends, then they failed the minute they had us go through Ultima Thule, whose writing I’ve already criticized at length across many threads so I won’t repeat myself here.

[jameseoakes]

I understand that the game allows and encourages some level of head canon, but after a certain point you're just playing an entirely different story to the rest of us.
Whilst you may only see them as coworkers, the game clearly positions them as your character's close friends.

I don't feel they're written that way at all, or if they are they are creepy forced friendships which make me deeply uncomfortable. Raha, Sthola and Alaise I think are the worst for this.

[Petite]

Like many players, XiRon forgot that Gosetsu is a MRoe, but other than that he's spot on.

I had to look it up. I never knew Othardian Roegadyns were a thing. I always thought of him as a super burly Hyur.

[Iyrnthota]

I don't feel they're written that way at all, or if they are they are creepy forced friendships which make me deeply uncomfortable. Raha, Sthola and Alaise I think are the worst for this.

Far be it from me to deny one's interpretation of a story, but if I may be so bold, personally, I find your interpretation to be pretty f'ing weird.

[Anura]

I don't feel they're written that way at all, or if they are they are creepy forced friendships which make me deeply uncomfortable. Raha, Sthola and Alaise I think are the worst for this.

That is because you're denying reality. Plain and simple. Feel free to headcanon whatever you want, but denying the fact that the Scions are supposed to be our friends makes NO sense whatsoever. I would show some examples, but it's really no needed, the game is full of them.

[OhNooo]

I can't stand G'raha or the Scions.

[jameseoakes]

That is because you're denying reality. Plain and simple. Feel free to headcanon whatever you want, but denying the fact that the Scions are supposed to be our friends makes NO sense whatsoever. I would show some examples, but it's really no needed, the game is full of them.

When is Sthola more than a respected work colleague than a friend. I can't remember many scenes where she's been a actual friend to the player character

[Avoidy]

Endwalker spoilers below, but this whole thread's a spoiler thread so if you came this far and get upset it's on you tbh

Eh, you're not alone. I think that about most of the scions. Their stories just seem done. I was excited when the ending implied that we'd all go our separate ways, but then .1 patch later and here we are, bringing the boys back together again. I was SURE that Alphinaud was gonna die in Endwalker, too. I didn't want him to, but I was preparing for the possibility. That boy was throwing death flags out in the expansion trailers, and his story arc really peaked with post shb (5.3) and then fell back into weird self-doubt habits that just seemed like the writers didn't know how to proceed with him. When Zenos was egging us on to fight him, I was so sure he'd just murder Alphinaud to provoke us or something, but in the end nobody died, and then "Everybody" fake-died in a really predictable way only to come back like an hour later because GOD FORBID we get to even sit with loss for a minute.

The writers lack courage at this point. If they kill any scions off, I'll be genuinely shocked. You don't need to kill people off to have a good story, but it helps to feel like there are genuine stakes. I haven't felt that way in a long long long time in this story, so I've kinda checked out if I'm being honest.

[OhNooo]

That boy was throwing death flags out in the expansion trailers...but in the end nobody died, and then "Everybody" fake-died in a really predictable way.

I haven't trusted an expansion trailer since the Shb one. The devs are good at misleading in those trailers and/or hyping things up to be way more than they end up being in the game.