Ultima Thule: 6.2 Addition

[Cleretic]

So are the Omicrons a beast tribe now?! Such disrespect!~

Summon Skynet, we're campaigning for AI rights and we've chosen..... VIOLENCE. ahem. I mean, "persuasion." Forceful persuasion.

No, they're a tribe. The language update has gone through, the UI itself says 'tribal relations' and all that. And we're explicitly not doing any violence towards them; the Stigma Dreamscape was a simulation, and they're the gathering quest. Stop spreading weird angry nonsense.

[SentioftheHoukai]

No, they're a tribe. The language update has gone through, the UI itself says 'tribal relations' and all that. And we're explicitly not doing any violence towards them; the Stigma Dreamscape was a simulation, and they're the gathering quest. Stop spreading weird angry nonsense.

-_-

......Are you serious right now? It was so obviously a joke that it's somehow stopped being funny all of a sudden. None of them should have been "tribes" in the first place, their people not things, do you somehow think me lacking in wits to have understood that? I've never been happy with the beast tribes' state in-game. But fine, let's entertain this line of thought. Honestly? I actually DO think it was a mistake to change the language, because fantasy racism was always present in the game and was never failed to be looked at as "this is bad, and we should change it" hence the wake-up call of Lalas being "beast tribes" in Shadowbringers. By erasing history's mistakes we are doomed to repeat them, and I don't believe we ever truly did enough in the narrative to have the tribes magickally forgive hundreds of years of bloodshed, conflict, and petty grudges. Hate me for that stance if you will, I care not a whit.

[sidurgu-12]

-_-

......Are you serious right now? It was so obviously a joke that it's somehow stopped being funny all of a sudden. None of them should have been "tribes" in the first place, their people not things, do you somehow think me lacking in wits to have understood that? I've never been happy with the beast tribes' state in-game. But fine, let's entertain this line of thought. Honestly? I actually DO think it was a mistake to change the language, because fantasy racism was always present in the game and was never failed to be looked at as "this is bad, and we should change it" hence the wake-up call of Lalas being "beast tribes" in Shadowbringers. By erasing history's mistakes we are doomed to repeat them, and I don't believe we ever truly did enough in the narrative to have the tribes magickally forgive hundreds of years of bloodshed, conflict, and petty grudges. Hate me for that stance if you will, I care not a whit.

i mean, the dragons and ishgard forgave each other and ended a thousand year war so why is changing beast tribe to tribal such a bad thing after everyone ingame began to work towards a better future?

[SentioftheHoukai]

i mean, the dragons and ishgard forgave each other and ended a thousand year war so why is changing beast tribe to tribal such a bad thing after everyone ingame began to work towards a better future?

Only because we forced them to. The Warrior of Light, banging stubborn loggerheads together for fun and profit since 1969~

In all seriousness, none of that would've happened had the Warrior never Arrived to Ishgard. You cannot discount our part in this. As for the tribes, well clearly you did not pay close attention to what I posted. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I didn't see us do nearly enough work or foster sufficient goodwill to make them all drop their preconceived notions of how we'd be. At best, we cured a tempered Kobold or three. I just believe that if they wanted us to come away NOT thinking that the tribes magickally woke up one morning for the Eorzean Small Council and said "Hey, these Eorzeans are actually pretty alright!" out of the Bismarck Blue then they failed to show it properly.

P.S. Why do I feel more like a mother than an adventurer half the time? Damn Eorzeans, can never solve their own sheiss....

We'll see that right after we see the Empty restored on the First, or Unukalhai and Cyella's efforts to restore the Void, or the aether returning life to the Burn.

Soooo...... Never?

[sidurgu-12]

Only because we forced them to. The Warrior of Light, banging stubborn loggerheads together for fun and profit since 1969~

In all seriousness, none of that would've happened had the Warrior never Arrived to Ishgard. You cannot discount our part in this.

P.S. Why do I feel more like a mother than an adventurer half the time? Damn Eorzeans, can never solve their own sheiss....



Soooo...... Never?

i do realize we broker (and sometimes force...outright strongarm in ishgard and the dragons case) most of the change but once it got rolling everyone started to change to make it work. heck, limsa lominsa abandoned all forms of piracy and began returning land in order to make peace with the sahagine and kobolds.

edit: i feel more like a janitor than a dad. always cleaning up calamities and grudges. and paid like one in return.

[Cleretic]

-_-

......Are you serious right now? It was so obviously a joke that it's somehow stopped being funny all of a sudden. None of them should have been "tribes" in the first place, their people not things, do you somehow think me lacking in wits to have understood that? I've never been happy with the beast tribes' state in-game. But fine, let's entertain this line of thought. Honestly? I actually DO think it was a mistake to change the language, because fantasy racism was always present in the game and was never failed to be looked at as "this is bad, and we should change it" hence the wake-up call of Lalas being "beast tribes" in Shadowbringers. By erasing history's mistakes we are doomed to repeat them, and I don't believe we ever truly did enough in the narrative to have the tribes magickally forgive hundreds of years of bloodshed, conflict, and petty grudges. Hate me for that stance if you will, I care not a whit.

Your jokes are indistinguishable from your actual complaints. In fact, this entire paragraph is indistinguishable from exactly the thing you said was a joke, to the point where some of this is actually even less defensible than the 'joke'. I'd suggest you either get funnier or make better points, so we can tell the difference better.

You realize that when talking about the in-game terminology I'm talking about the metatextual UI stuff, right? The things that nobody in the story is saying, but is the messaging put directly to us as the player? It's fair to not use the fantasy-racist terms in that context, where they're speaking to us as the players rather than the actual characters that either are or aren't being racist.

Plus, using a less specific term opens the doors wider without leading to people trying to pull up terminology as a 'hey wait a minute', either maliciously as a gotcha or just getting confused. The term 'beast tribe' wasn't even a thing to throw around in Shadowbringers and even when it was clearly didn't apply quite right to the dwarves. In Endwalker we have the arkasodara, who aren't in any way otherized like the 'classical definition'. The Omicrons fitting weirdly by way of not even classifying as 'beasts' taxonomically-speaking. Moving into speculation, if they want the crafting tribe to be the Ancients or the Garleans, then 'beast tribe' is exactly the opposite definition to what they want, so why keep it except to be weirdly cruel and demeaning to fictional mostly-humans?

I've got no idea why you're even going on this weird ramble. Hell, your joke was already a non-sequitir, you went 'ooooh we're calling them a beast tribe, better get violent' in response to a post that didn't say 'beast' once or imply any violence. To be quite honest, the only way I can read that 'joke' in a way that actually tracks as a beginning-to-end rational thought process is that for some reason you think that I immediately want to kill anything I call a 'tribe'. Which... uhm. No. I don't.

I mean, if the city-states could actually solve their own problems, we wouldn't have much of a game left to play.

In fairness, out of every city-state in Eorzea, four of the five seem to be doing reasonably well at sorting out their own affairs these days, only needing our help for when things go sideways. The EW role quests did a great job to show that; while we take out the Blasphemy (with help, each time) we also see the city-states taking the initiative to solve the human-level problems that gave rise to them.

Waiting on you to get started on yours, Gridania.

[TheMightyMollusk]

In fairness, out of every city-state in Eorzea, four of the five seem to be doing reasonably well at sorting out their own affairs these days, only needing our help for when things go sideways. The EW role quests did a great job to show that; while we take out the Blasphemy (with help, each time) we also see the city-states taking the initiative to solve the human-level problems that gave rise to them.

Waiting on you to get started on yours, Gridania.

The problem with Gridania is that their problems with the tribes haven't been relevant since Ramuh back in post-ARR. Every once in a while they talk about their isolationism, but it's never actually shown outside of a couple of sidequests and a brief set of quests with the Ala Mhigan refugees in Quarrymill around the mid-20s; or discrimination against Duskwights and Keepers of the Moon, which also never come up outside of a couple of job stories (lancer and archer); or the elementals, which never come up outside of conjurer/white mage quests as actually being a problem. They never got enough focus otherwise to even establish much. Hell, the EW role quest is the most we've ever seen in-game about Kan-e Senna's back story, while Nanamo and Merlwyb (and, for that matter, Raubahn, Lyse, Aymeric, and Hien) all get plenty of focus in the MSQ.

So at this point, I'm torn on whether I'd want to actually see Gridania get its fair share, or just move on from Eorzea and go somewhere else for a while. But I kinda lean towards the latter.