Endwalker Story sucked and it's time to admit it

[Brightamethyst]

If I was in charge of the story:

In 5.3 one of the major gimmicks of the Elidibus fight is that he limit breaks us and we tank limit to block it. The resident magic nerds, G'raha and or Y'shtola, see this and go, "WTF was that? That wasn't aether." This leads them to start researching and in 5.4/5.5 find evidence of another power source fueled by emotion (point to BRD/DNC/WAR/whatever.) That way when we see the flower, and akasa and dyanmis are introduced by name, the idea has already been floating around the back of our minds for a while. It becomes an "ooooooh, now I get it" moment rather than a "WTF is this BS?" moment.

The one that I hated straight away was the Ultima Thule story up until the last few quests. Scions dying and returning felt awfully cheap, since you know that this is how it will end from the get go. Call me heartless or sociopath or whatever, but I legit giggled when G’raha said his goodbye. “Oh, no, a third time and another promise to a guy who will return in a few quests, such tragedy, boo hoo”…

Right? It was so incredibly obvious that everything was leading up to the scions making a dramatic return that the character deaths felt almost comical rather than sad and/or inspiring. Especially toward the end when it was like, "bye Alisaie, see you in 5 minutes."

Thankfully, the amazing dungeon and Zenos at the end allowed my last impression to be a positive one.

Personally I hated that they made Zenos the finale. He won, and we let him. After everything he did and everything we went through, at the very last second the WoL caved and handed Zenos everything he wanted on a silver platter. Where was my "no, I won't give you the satisfaction" option? Even if it just made him fly into a rage and attack us, forcing the fight anyway, I would have felt better knowing it was on him, not us. That he had to force the issue because we wouldn't give in. They whole finale just left a really bad taste in my mouth.

[Thenightvortex]

If I was in charge of the story:

In 5.3 one of the major gimmicks of the Elidibus fight is that he limit breaks us and we tank limit to block it. The resident magic nerds, G'raha and or Y'shtola, see this and go, "WTF was that? That wasn't aether." This leads them to start researching and in 5.4/5.5 find evidence of another power source fueled by emotion (point to BRD/DNC/WAR/whatever.) That way when we see the flower, and akasa and dyanmis are introduced by name, the idea has already been floating around the back of our minds for a while. It becomes an "ooooooh, now I get it" moment rather than a "WTF is this BS?" moment.





Right? It was so incredibly obvious that everything was leading up to the scions making a dramatic return that the character deaths felt almost comical rather than sad and/or inspiring. Especially toward the end when it was like, "bye Alisaie, see you in 5 minutes."




Personally I hated that they made Zenos the finale. He won, and we let him. After everything he did and everything we went through, at the very last second the WoL caved and handed Zenos everything he wanted on a silver platter. Where was my "no, I won't give you the satisfaction" option? Even if it just made him fly into a rage and attack us, forcing the fight anyway, I would have felt better knowing it was on him, not us. That he had to force the issue because we wouldn't give in. They whole finale just left a really bad taste in my mouth.

Yeah, agreed on the scions, they desperately wanted some emotional reaction from the player but it just felt flat. Even with the scions I liked they couldn’t force me to care. I would have much preferred to have a single, but real and impactful death(probably having it be Urianger, Thancred or Y’shtola would make most sense, they are the old guard after all)rather than this clownery.

As for Zenos, I understand where you’re coming from, the way this final lands is dependent of how each individual player feels about Zenos. I liked him and giving him the opportunity to fulfill his desire while indulging myself at the end of the universe was one of the most cathartic moments in the game. It was such a perfect finale for Zenos and I really hope they would never bring him back and tarnish this image.

This game has never given players any substantial choice, the WOL is a written character who you can put flavor on. It makes the role playing aspect bland and I complained about many pointless dialogue options before. This game just doesn’t allow any major deviations, so it’s easier to disconnect yourself from the WOl. That’s the reason I don’t feel particularly mad about my character aiding Venat or something, I never really saw him as someone I have much influence over.

Granted, I think the dialogue options they gave with Zenos is one of the better ones. All have a unique response and each paints your WOL in a different light. The closest you can come to not indulging Zenos is picking option 2. It basically implies that your WOL doesn’t care for Zenos but will strike him down so he would not return to the source and harm their friends. Zenos may say that the WOL betrays their deception and stuff, but this is a biased view of a man who wishes to see the protagonist a certain way, I wouldn’t trust him on this one. It would be good to have an option that directly says “no” instead of “think what you will”, though.

[GeckoMain]

I 100% agree with this take on the scions- I've said so many times that ultima thule was completely ruined by the really obvious and meaningless death of the scions, I couldn't take anything any of them said seriously and it really let me down. Not only was it incredibly obvious they were just going to come back, it's also insulting to give each character their own 'important' death speech, ergh it just completely took me out of it. I would have been so devastated and impacted if thancred or urianger or yshtola had actually died- 1 death is so much more meaningful then 7 absolutely fake deaths.

I think this kinda marked a decline in the storytelling honestly- they are so afraid of doing something the fans would hate like killing one of our favourite scions that they prioritised it over making a genuinely impressive story telling moment- and that really peeves me.

Shadowbringers got away with it because the rest of the expansion, including the core story and plot was cohesive, believable and pretty phenominal- but endwalker wasn't quite that impressive, it had some great moment throughout but it's story has some definite flaws and I'm just not a fan of how clearly defined and retconned all the lore of the game is now.

It's sad because I was so impressed with ShB and I was so excited for the future expansions amd finding out all of the lore- and by the endwalker I was kinda deflated haha, like THAT'S the lore of it all? It was just too fanservicey and made it clear they hadn't planned it through nearly as much as ShB made it seem they had- and for a game where lore is a huge drawing point for a lot of fans it does effect the way you view the rest of the story, especially going forward.

Went on a tangent there but hey ho it's just my opinion haha

[Thenightvortex]

I 100% agree with this take on the scions- I've said so many times that ultima thule was completely ruined by the really obvious and meaningless death of the scions, I couldn't take anything any of them said seriously and it really let me down. Not only was it incredibly obvious they were just going to come back, it's also insulting to give each character their own 'important' death speech, ergh it just completely took me out of it. I would have been so devastated and impacted if thancred or urianger or yshtola had actually died- 1 death is so much more meaningful then 7 absolutely fake deaths.

I think this kinda marked a decline in the storytelling honestly- they are so afraid of doing something the fans would hate like killing one of our favourite scions that they prioritised it over making a genuinely impressive story telling moment- and that really peeves me. I hope they at least make Golbez a good villain on par with the better ones in Hydaelyn-Zodiark story and don’t kill him off too quickly before 7.0

Shadowbringers got away with it because the rest of the expansion, including the core story and plot was cohesive, believable and pretty phenominal- but endwalker wasn't quite that impressive, it had some great moment throughout but it's story has some definite flaws and I'm just not a fan of how clearly defined and retconned all the lore of the game is now.

It's sad because I was so impressed with ShB and I was so excited for the future expansions amd finding out all of the lore- and by the endwalker I was kinda deflated haha, like THAT'S the lore of it all? It was just too fanservicey and made it clear they hadn't planned it through nearly as much as ShB made it seem they had- and for a game where lore is a buge drawing point for a lot of fans it does effect the way you view the rest of the story, especially going forward.

Went on a tangent there but hey ho it's just my opinion haha

The complete absence of stakes is what makes it a bit harder for me to get excited for the next MSQ story, cause I’m still sure that in the end of it, we will win, the heroes will lose absolutely nothing in the process. If there will be any need for “sad” moments, they’ll just resort to fake deaths once again coupled with preaching about “sacrifice” when everyone is perfectly fine. I hope they can at least make Golbez a good villain and not kill him off too early before 7.0.

Speaking of the scions in UT, there was a potential scenario in my head all the way back to 6.0. The story can remain conceptually the same, but the sacrifices of scions should feel less dramatic and a goodbye, and more like “we can still return, but only if you win, so don’t mess it up”(sure, that’s what it actually was in the game but they went too hard on the teary goodbye angle). Then when you only have 1 scion left you have them die for real, breaking the pattern. Not quite sure how, perhaps a caveat in a way UT is structured, some dangerous dynamis manipulation that would be set up beforehand, etc. The player would expect that they know how it will play out, and then will be shocked by an actual permanent death. This is where the final walk comes in, following by what we saw in game. All scions return except the one who sacrificed themselves permanently, I think it would have made the story more powerful.

The obvious candidate for this would be Urianger, instead of just randomly dying with Y’shtola he follows through to the end, and then plays the part.

[GeckoMain]

Endwalker is dissapointing to me. Writing wise, I think it's above arr, but I rank it below arr since at least arr has the ball to kill characters and let the protagonists made mistakes. Meanwhile EW is free from nearly all consequences.

I do like Garlemald and elpis section, but again, the bad outweigh the good. For a finale of 10 year arc, they certainly rushed it and crammed too many plots.

I certainly don't appreciate the introduction of dynamis to ffxiv world, since it's pretty much a deus ex machina.

The complete absence of stakes is what makes it a bit harder for me to get excited for the next MSQ story, cause I’m still sure that in the end of it, we will win, the heroes will lose absolutely nothing in the process. If there will be any need for “sad” moments, they’ll just resort to fake deaths once again coupled with preaching about “sacrifice” when everyone is perfectly fine. I hope they can at least make Golbez a good villain and not kill him off too early before 7.0. All scions return except the one who sacrificed themselves permanently, I think it would have made the story more powerful.

The obvious candidate for this would be Urianger, instead of just randomly dying with Y’shtola he follows through to the end, and then plays the part.

Yeah or if it turned out that Thancred really couldn't be saved at the end since he sacrificed himself to allow to exist there. I actually agree that in ways I actually prefer ARR- obviously in story telling amd engagement EW wins but in lore and world building, ARR is better in my eyes.

I think them cramming 2 expansions into 1 was a really bad idea and the story would have been hugely improved if they had given more time to every single part of EW. Garlemald should have been half an expansion at least, the world being destroyed and the corruption of all the zones should have been explored wayyy more and the role quests all feel really lackluster as a way to explore them. It's just copying ShB and the lightwardens but with the literal invasion of all the realms and city states which should not be delegated to role quests.

Hell they could have done something crazy and ended the 1st part with the defeat of zodiark and the corruption of all the realms, after an expansion on the fall of garlemald which deserved way more exploration than it received and should have literally been much larger. Instead it was deligated to Alphinaud and Alisaes little side arc. No way man, too many things are done a disservice in EW just to rush to the end.