It's time to revaluate paper crown battlementors

[hagare]

I don't think most people are expecting mentors to be perfect players.

But we do expect them to be helpful to the best of their ability. A mentor who's a WHM but can't be bothered to heal in an Alliance raid (which I saw the other day, people in the party kept dying because they were too busy making noise in chat as they spammed stone to heal anyone) is not being helpful to the best of their ability.

Perhaps the situation is better on the JP worlds. On the NA worlds, it's a mess.

yeah well, the suggested requirement won't help with that.
It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of attitude.

[Mika_Zahard]

If Adventurer in Need isn't intended to fill queues faster, what purpose do you think it serves?

Stop being dumb. Trying to fill queues faster is exactly why Adventurer in Need exists. The random match algorithm notices that X role is the last to be filled in the parties created. It assigns that role to Adventurer in Need to encourage more players to queue in that role.

Because the algorithm seems to update only once every 5 minutes, a lot of time it appears to be "wrong" about what's needed. Actually it had been correct at the time of the last update and it's so effective that players switched to that role, making a different role the now needed role. A lot of times when I'm ready to queue, I'll just use the other role (healer if tank listed, tank if healer listed) knowing there's a good chance it will have a faster queue because too many are trying to get the bonus. I don't really care about the bonus, I just want the faster queue.

Mentor roulette is far less effective in filling queues because not enough mentors actually make use of it.

You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

[TaleraRistain]

Unfortunately no matter what a mentor do is gonna be perceived as bad most of the times. I have been called rude and/or yelled at for giving "unsolicited advice", even though we had already wipe twice to the same boss mechanic, so now i rather remain silent unless someone actually ask for help/advice, not ideal but unfortunately that's the way it is :/

it's going to come off as rude and know it all if someone just starts instructing without anyone asking, even if the group is having trouble. It can especially be problematic if there's already stress from failed tries.. I usually just say something like "Does anyone need/want me to explain anything?" and then they can choose to ask if they need it. This lets the person be in control of whether they want instruction or not. If someone feels in control, they will feel more comfortable and confident in asking questions. By asking, it also sets up an environment that we're there to help and support. So people respond to that more positively. There is the random group that doesn't respond, but then we just keep trying and usually get it. Sometimes people are shy to speak up or they may be on console. Usually I get someone who asks and I explain what we're having issues with and we're good.

[Sesera]

You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

Remove mentor roulette, add an omni roulette for everyone, put the same reward as mentor roulette problem solved.

[hagare]

Remove mentor roulette, add an omni roulette for everyone, put the same reward as mentor roulette problem solved.

so basically remove every shed of requirement for anyone to be a mentor? cool. Let's do it

[UkcsAlias]

I've never been in any mentor roulette and I loathe to imagine myself doing it. But my approach is very similar to yours: wait for $hit hits the fan before giving tips, because at least at that point the wipe informs them that their initial approach does not work and require abit of assistance.

From my experience, if its a macro, i wouldnt care anyway. Since even with such info, getting used to the mechanics can take time. And at least it can give you important cueues.

The first time garuda for me, no one knew the mechanics, and after 4 wipes without any chance at the phase where the rocks matter, a mentor finaly joined in and explained the mechanics. 3 attempts later we already managed to beat it. If we would have known how those rocks worked. it might have saved several wipes there. But even then i wouldnt expect instant beating it (note, it took 2 attempts to get through that even after we knew what to do).

Expert duties can be vicious to new players. And anyone that already knows those mechanics generaly will respect those explain macros. Since it also saves them time by assisting the newer players. Time spent dead (which as newer player in those duties is common) is excelent spent reading such info.

Those who show salt will always do that anyway. It doesnt matter if you are a mentor or not.

[GeminiReed]

so basically remove every shed of requirement for anyone to be a mentor? cool. Let's do it

Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

[hagare]

Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

no, requirement.
Making everyone able to access an "omni dungeon" that replaces mentor dungeon that is accessible by everyone means you don't have to do anything to be a mentor, which means EVERYONE'S a mentor.
Your suggestion is even better. Everyone that's leveled every job to 90 by fate leveling can now participate without being a mentor!.
again, LET'S DO IT!

[Jojoya]

You're the one being foolish by not realizing the issue. As the hroth mentioned below, the only roulette that actually can fill the spot you need is MENTOR ROULETTE, which is designed for that.

You can get someone ditching Orbonne as soon as it pops, and i can get a prompt to AiN as Tank. But guess what? Unless im 70 and already have it unlocked, i wont be placed there, no matter how much in need it is. Unlike Mentor Roulette, which will place you there as in order to queue for it, you need to be on a specific level and have EVERY DUTY UNLOCKED.

I see where the problem is coming from now.

I was talking about filling queues faster - you know, what players enter when they QUEUE for a duty.

You're talking about filling Party in Progress - you know, where players have already made it past the QUEUE only to have a party member leave for whatever reasons.

You're right that Mentor Roulette fills Party in Progress. That's because for some stupid reason SE decided to only match players queueing for their roulettes to fresh parties instead of parties in progress unless they have enabled Join Party in Progress. They should have done it the other way around for roulettes (not direct queues) and match players to parties in progress when there's a party needing a new member.

Considering how often mentors don't have a clue what they're doing or are being less than helpful even when they do, SE would be better off making Mentor Roulette available to all players who have unlocked every duty instead of limiting it to those with bloated egos that think they're special for having a paper crown. That would get the parties in progress filled even faster.

Until SE decides to make such a change, there are normal players who do enable Join Party in Progress because they either like to help out groups that are struggling or because they feel they get through their roulettes a bit quicker by using it (especially helpful for DPS). No paper crown needed. I can't claim I use it all the time but I have and will continue to do it on occasion.

No one cares that you've unlocked all the duties required for mentor roulette because most players do it automatically as they reach level cap and as new content gets released. You're not special for doing that.

[Asako]

Did you mean responsibility?

Mentors do other things like answer questions about the game which is something I find far more important than being a warm body. There's a benefit for a sprout if they can get a mentor to queue with them. I much prefer the model where people ask for help from people willing to help. That solves or should solve the issue of people not being receptive to advice.

Mentor Roulette is nothing more than a backfill queue and IMO should be decoupled from mentor status. At a bare minimum it'll remove one of the wrong reasons (Astrope) people become mentors. I've seen so many gloat posts here and elsewhere about never having to do Mentor Roulette again.

Heck, I'd even put a twist on it. To register for the duty you must select one job for each trinity role: Tank, Healer, DPS. When the queue pops you need to switch or be switched to the corresponding job.

For so long I have wanted the ability to swap to missing roles in a dungeon as a mentor. If my group drops a tank and I can play tank then just let me jump to tank. I've actually had to leave and attempt to rejoin as the intended role in order to help the team but for some reason FFXIV prioritises new parties instead of existing ones when I know for a fact existing ones are waiting to be filled.

As for never having to do the roulette again maybe for a lot of people sure but at least they completed 2000 instances helping people whether they themselves were helpful or not. Personally I'm on almost 1000/2000 on my alt just because I love the roulette so much. It's the only place you can do EX trial roulette which in my opinion is the best thing possible I can get in a mentor roulette. Everyone can do Guildhests / Dungeons / Normal Trials but a lot of people don't actually know the mechanics for EX Trials, especially those after ARR.

Edit: Jojoya - "You're talking about filling Party in Progress - you know, where players have already made it past the QUEUE only to have a party member leave for whatever reasons."

Not at all, Mentors actually fill any queue that is missing people whether it is in progress or not, it is the single most useful thing square has ever done to help congestion in this game. I most certainly do not want to go back to the time before Mentor roulette was a thing and DPS queues were literally 30 minutes at best. Queing as any role now is pretty chill as the queue times are much shorter, even more now that the game has so many more new players coming in needing old content filled.

Adventurer in need is also good, but it's effect simply has nothing on what Mentor roulette has done for the game