Who are the people we don't have names for yet in the 6.2 artwork?

[Iscah]

I think people might have missed that Erichthonios' (Eric) super form we fight when we first show up has the Lahabrea mask embedded on its head.

Imo this is pretty much straight up showing that he's the future Lahabrea we deal with in the modern times.

It's the mark of the high-ranking official who is both his dad and his boss.

I don't think we need to read anything more into it at this point.

[Enkidoh]

Right, also an Ancient's transformed form is basically a 'costume' in a way, so Eric having Lahabrea's mask on his transformation's head was basically just sonnyboy emulating his old man, and wasn't really referencing anything further than decoration (it's something I certainly did not notice fighting him).

Also, in regards to Themis and his white robe, and why he's the best candidate as Elidibus's true identity, we know already that Elidibus was young around the time we went to Elpis (from EW's MSQ referencing Azem's infamous volcanic jaunt as recent history that Elidibus mentioned in a story on the Lodestone as presently occuring), same as Themis, Elidibus wears a white robe (due to being the Emmisary) same as Themis (with Themis's comments about "working for an advisory organization to the Convocation" as just a flimsy smokescreen to hide his true identity), Themis clearly idolizes Azem (same as Elidibus did).

And the big kicker... the whole reason the WoL ended up in Elpis originally in the first place was because Elidibus had a sudden flash of memory seeing the WoL back then in Elpis, and during the EW MSQ events there, we did not see a single Ancient who even remotely fitted Elidibus's appearence and identity. But Themis on the other hand, matches Elidibus perfectly....

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

[WellGramarye]

Are you talking about this side story? Two things; First, in reading the text, it is supposed that Hades destroyed the creature and sent the wandering soul back to the life stream, as presumes the final line:

He let out a quiet breath, a sigh mingled with laughter. Then he faced the bird and set about his task.

So it shouldn't be the Phoinix itself, else why would they need both someone with Hades power, and his sorcerorous ability.

Now this story mentions Lahabrea, and attributes creatures to him:

Was it his affinity for concepts of flame that made him so like the fire itself? From peerless Ifrita to that hopelessly immortal bird, his creations had burned bright and beautiful─as did he.

There is no real concept of between the two stories, only that one is when Hades was first made Emet-Selk, and the second is him remininscing about a time with Elidibus after his been made that seat. With Elpis happening after Hades already being Emet-Selk and Pandaemonium happening seemingly at this same time, is there anything to connect the Phoinix to fire bird, other than well bird of fire?

[Cleretic]

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

See, I've landed on a theory that Themis is actually something that's supposed to be in Pandaemonium, and is just pretending to be a normal Ancient person, possibly by imitating He Who Would Be Elidibus. Either he's helping us because he's trying to get us to actually make the disorder worse while claiming to fix it, or perhaps he literally just doesn't know he's supposed to be locked up in there.

I have no evidence for this theory. However, that itself is a type of evidence here; you wouldn't have had any evidence for 'Eden is an Ascian' at this point in Eden, nor evidence for 'Alexander is a sentient and benevolent time machine' at this point in Alexander, or 'Louisoix became Phoenix and also simultaneously got tempered by Bahamut' at this point in Coils (You might've predicted 'Omega is actually a Sad Robot with Sad Robot Feelings' at this point in Omega, but that's a different kind of long shot.)

EDIT:

There is no real concept of between the two stories, only that one is when Hades was first made Emet-Selk, and the second is him remininscing about a time with Elidibus after his been made that seat. With Elpis happening after Hades already being Emet-Selk and Pandaemonium happening seemingly at this same time, is there anything to connect the Phoinix to fire bird, other than well bird of fire?

My evidence for that is primarily 'storytelling logic', it's a bit of a Chekhov's Gun/Occam's Razor combo (Chekhov's Razor? Occam's Gun?). If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

That quote you picked out also brings in another connective point, though: Emet doesn't just connect Thordan-Murdered Lahabrea and the firebird, he also connects him to Ifrita. Azem Versus the Volcano took place before Elpis, as evidenced by the fact Hyth brings up the events to Venat, so the Lahabrea of that time must be the same as the Lahabrea we watched die--or at least, Emet thinks they're the same Lahabrea.

[WellGramarye]

It's the mark of the high-ranking official who is both his dad and his boss.

I don't think we need to read anything more into it at this point.

Right, also an Ancient's transformed form is basically a 'costume' in a way, so Eric having Lahabrea's mask on his transformation's head was basically just sonnyboy emulating his old man, and wasn't really referencing anything further than decoration (it's something I certainly did not notice fighting him).

Also, in regards to Themis and his white robe, and why he's the best candidate as Elidibus's true identity, we know already that Elidibus was young around the time we went to Elpis (from EW's MSQ referencing Azem's infamous volcanic jaunt as recent history that Elidibus mentioned in a story on the Lodestone as presently occuring), same as Themis, Elidibus wears a white robe (due to being the Emmisary) same as Themis (with Themis's comments about "working for an advisory organization to the Convocation" as just a flimsy smokescreen to hide his true identity), Themis clearly idolizes Azem (same as Elidibus did).

And the big kicker... the whole reason the WoL ended up in Elpis originally in the first place was because Elidibus had a sudden flash of memory seeing the WoL back then in Elpis, and during the EW MSQ events there, we did not see a single Ancient who even remotely fitted Elidibus's appearence and identity. But Themis on the other hand, matches Elidibus perfectly....

Yes it hasn't yet been outright stated conclusively that Themis=Elidibus (although no doubt that will happen soon enough), but all signs strongly point to that being the case, and as I said, there isn't really anyone else at all who even remotely fits him otherwise.

Fair enough on both accounts, though I'll stick with my opinion for now on Eric.

As for Themis, does he really fit the description of:

The voice belonged, as I knew it would, to a white-robed youth of small stature,

Especially when we see him after the fight on Crystal Tower and he's TINY and child like?

[RicaRuin]

Fair enough on both accounts, though I'll stick with my opinion for now on Eric.

As for Themis, does he really fit the description of:


Especially when we see him after the fight on Crystal Tower and he's TINY and child like?

I thought the tiny and child-like was more of a metaphor of how he's only a shard of who he used to be (especially after he split from Zodiark).

[Iscah]

If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

They mention that there were many prototypes for the finalised Phoinix, and the one we fought was one of the failures. The one Emet destroyed was probably an even earlier version of the design.

From the quest script:

THEMIS
Phoinix... I have heard the name before. A fiery bird with life eternal.
Beyond unquenchable brilliance, the perfected concept boasts nigh-boundless restorative powers, if I recall. Truly an exemplary feat of creation magicks.
Perfection is ever built on the back of failure, however, and Lahabrea suffered countless missteps during his experiments...
...And he was hardly the only one. This phoinix will be but one of many attempts at the concept gone awry.

ERICHTHONIOS
Aye. Far from evoking wonder, our phoinix is a creature of fury and wrath, and seeks only to turn the world to ash. Thus was it confined within Pandæmonium.

[WellGramarye]

See, I've landed on a theory that Themis is actually something that's supposed to be in Pandaemonium, and is just pretending to be a normal Ancient person, possibly by imitating He Who Would Be Elidibus. Either he's helping us because he's trying to get us to actually make the disorder worse while claiming to fix it, or perhaps he literally just doesn't know he's supposed to be locked up in there.

I have no evidence for this theory. However, that itself is a type of evidence here; you wouldn't have had any evidence for 'Eden is an Ascian' at this point in Eden, nor evidence for 'Alexander is a sentient and benevolent time machine' at this point in Alexander, or 'Louisoix became Phoenix and also simultaneously got tempered by Bahamut' at this point in Coils (You might've predicted 'Omega is actually a Sad Robot with Sad Robot Feelings' at this point in Omega, but that's a different kind of long shot.)

EDIT:



My evidence for that is primarily 'storytelling logic', it's a bit of a Chekhov's Gun/Occam's Razor combo (Chekhov's Razor? Occam's Gun?). If they set up a violent immortal fire bird connected to Lahabrea, and then later have a violent immortal fire bird appear in an area connected to Lahabrea, it would be weird if they weren't the exact same bird.

That quote you picked out also brings in another connective point, though: Emet doesn't just connect Thordan-Murdered Lahabrea and the firebird, he also connects him to Ifrita. Azem Versus the Volcano took place before Elpis, as evidenced by the fact Hyth brings up the events to Venat, so the Lahabrea of that time must be the same as the Lahabrea we watched die--or at least, Emet thinks they're the same Lahabrea.

The description of Asphodelos: The Third Circle says :

Standing in your way, however, is the phoinix, a violent failed iteration of the iconic immortal bird.

Which seemingly delineates it from the previous bird in the Tales from the Shadows story. In Ancient times we know that concepts were also iterated upon, so its hardly and most likely not the first, nor last fire bird made in their time. If the second story of Azem and the Island takes place before Elpis, then that means Themis can't be Elidibus, as he should have the mask of his office at this point.

Edit:

They mention that there were many prototypes for the finalised Phoinix, and the one we fought was one of the failures. The one Emet destroyed was probably an even earlier version of the design.

From the quest script:

Thanks for bringing this up as well.

[SannaR]

Another reason why many label Themis as Elidibus is due to post 6.0 MSQ raid tease. Where we see a young man from behind that looks exactly like Themis does from behind. That then has voiced dialog with the voice being that of Elidibus. We learn during the raid that if anyone of the convocation learned how bad things are they would basically nuke the place. So he tells Eric he's totally not a convocation member, but some dude who's working with it.

Even though we know he's supposed to be investigating this with Azem who had to nope out at the last minute. Having told Themis to look out for their (or was it a) shooting star. Eric and it seems other Pandeamonium workers also wear a crystal around their belts with the full Lahabreha sigil so I just thought he incorporated that into his transformation. Now it would make sense that he would have one that looked like his father or incorporated his father into it somehow since Eric does his best to impress Lahabreha.

[Lyth]

I was under the impression that Pandaemonium's function was to allow the Amaurotians to study creations that were too valuable to destroy, but too dangerous to be released into the world. The Phoinix in 'Through His Eyes' was an anomaly that they had never encountered before. I'd be surprised if they would have immediately destroyed it without first attempting to determine how the soul attachment had occurred. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the basis of the hemitheos experiments that were being conducted inside. We never see the outcome of Hades' fight with it.