The feeling of beeing Home ...

[Treesus]

This feels...oddly close to a bait post. Look, ill give you this, there is a certain sad sense in finally getting the answers to alot of overarching questions that have been hanging over the game for ages. Especially if they ended in a way that dint appeal you personally. However, alot of the points you point out as reasons you dislike the game CURRENTLY have been around for a pretty extended time period, or were actually discussed and covered in the endwalker MSQ that you just seem to...ignore. Tataru has acted as she does in EW since basically HW. Yshtolas issues again, happened quite a while ago and have only very lightly been touched on since. Urianger has an entire MSQ plot revolving around him and his lying nature, which makes it an odd point out. Thancred has been grieving for ages. However his EW version did it CONSIDERBLY less then other past MSQs. Alphi and Alisaie as you've written them out sounds less like its a character issue, and more you havent let go old hashed out plot points. Alphinaud has become pretty levelheaded overall, not very smartass, and been mostly likeable to the majority of players it seems. Alisaie has always been a character whos worn her emotions on her sleeve, even going back to HW. To be mad about her crying speaks again to a just overall dislike of the character as a whole, not her specific EW version. And for the last 3, Estenian, Kryle, and Graha, they have not changed much since: End of HW, partway in SB, and basically ARR respectively. At least within the specific character traits you point out. All this being said, it sounds like you do, and have, simply just disliked the main cast for a majority of the MSQ. Meaning your biggest issue was probably just MSQ its self and how things wrapped up. On that front, while not trying to be dismissive of your complaints, they are opinions. Some enjoyed how things were done, some did not. I have a hard time believing you ever felt "at home" for anything that is MSQ or character related outside of maybe some of the more overarching lore pieces? Because even going through MSQ, alot of the plot points, twist, ect were pretty easily spelt out long before they happened. I never expected to see a non ruined garlamald, and I dont think many did either. Alot of your complaints seem to chock up to "I had rose tinted goggles on, but a bad thing happened, they got smashed, why game bad." The game and its story has flaws, no doubt. But a huge chunk of what you point out as flaws have been here, so why are you only now feeling this way? Was it really just the disliking of how certain things panned out? Something happen to shift your perspective of the game? I dont know. But a good choice for the moment may just be unsubbing for a while. Try and determine more accurately why its only NOW your feeling like this, because most of your reasoning could have been stated back in HW and have had little to no difference as complaints vrs saying them now in EW. Hope ya figure it out.

[Aneshda]

snip

So other opinions as your own, are Bait Posts now?
When you get involed into the story of this game and suddenly a lot of things makes no sense anymore, cause they got changed last minute or never meant a thing cause Yoshi wanted to get rid of the old things ... don't know. Are we playing the same game?
The Scions are a bunch of boring yes sayers who thinks it is bad when the Garleans or others do something bad, but god forbid if the worst of it all was Hydaelyn. And what was the reaction of all that? Not a single tear, not a single bad word. My Friend Zenos would have said "Acceptance .... at last acceptance" and only that.

Maybe you agree with the story, maybe you liked it and how it turned out for you. You may even have skipped most parts of the story. But I put a lot of time into the story and a lot of money and that's all we're getting after all these years? A halfhearted clickbait story that raised even more questions than before Endwalker. Everything Yoshi has to say "don't look too deep into the story"...don't know if he was drunk but FFX14 lives for the story, everything else you can have in all other games.
If you like the Scions it's okay, but after all these years of always feeling the same, acting the same, it gets old and boring. No matter how many times we sit at a table, eat burgers, or watch a catgirl sleep in a library.
I can tell you next time we have Alphinaud back on our team and something happens... watch him clench his fist for the 100th time.

[Treesus]

Snip

I called it bait because it legitimately seemed it. Extremally badly argued issues are a common thing on here. Its not hard to find it happening daily. If you dont want to be called bait, put in effort. As your original post was set up, it was poorly worded, poorly explained, and left a large amount of questions as to why this is a complaint NOW, vrs why this hasent been a complaint for however long you have been playing. Im not saying your opinions are wrong, and even go out of my way to say that in the wall, so good on ya for again, ignoring that, and acting mad with "So other opinions as your own, are Bait Posts now?". Write well worded complaints, or be labeled as such. Onto the reply, that first point needs alot more definition then what your giving it. "a lot of things makes no sense anymore, cause they got changed last minute or never meant a thing cause Yoshi wanted to get rid of the old things ..." how so? Very little seems to be changed last minuet in the game to me. Its overall is a cohesive plot that has callbacks to even ARR plots and comments. If this is your opinion, Id ask for specific points to be discussed, because as is its just a "it seems bad to me" which is impossible to argue back and forth with. Next point "The Scions are a bunch of boring yes sayers", actually true. I dont think this nesscarly is a bad aspect, but understandable to those who would want more inparty conflict of some sort. However, in your original post, you never bring this aspect of them up as being an issue BEFORE endwalker, and as stated, they have been this way for AGES. At best you did a bad job of explaining how youve either simply tolerated this aspect, or your mind recently changed on it, at worst your opinion changed and you retroactively disliked them, painting it as a "new" problem when it simply isent, at least not on an overarching scale. As for the last paragraph, I enjoy the story. Theres bits I like, bits I dont, and bits I outright hate. Its not perfect, and anyone saying so should be taken with a grain of salt. However, just as its bad to overly like the story, there are those who overly hate it. If all your hear for IS the story, and now you hate the story, a best scenario is simple leaving. I dont say that to be dismissive, nor do I say it to be mean. Its simply unhealthy to stay with a game that simply isent for you anymore. The scions overall are a mixed bag. I like some, dislike others. Its perfectly valid to dislike aspects of them. But if you want to talk about why you do or dont like them, you do need to be more concise with it. People on the forms cant read your mind. If you dont type it, we dont know it. And in a place where bait post saying "eww game bad" are numerous and plentiful, it can become hard to tell someone just having a hard time explaining their issues with the game from some smoothbrain baitposter trying to rile up the masses.

[Aneshda]

snip

I wrote clearly what I don't like on the Scions. It was maybe nice in A Realm Reborn or Heavensward ... but after that not acceptable that those "around" our WoL are still the same bunch of never changing People.

Imagine you buy a book and you buy it primarily because of the cover, the title and a little bit because of what's on the cover. You read the book and the story is exciting, new and after you have finished reading the book you start googling whether the author has other books, whether there will be another book.
Time flies, but 2 years later the time has finally come. Another book is coming, continuing the story you loved so much. The second book is even better than the first, more exciting and you are so hyped that you tell your friends, maybe even your family, about the book and the story. The continuation of the story now makes more sense to you and on the internet you can find other people who have also read these books. You exchange ideas and can hardly wait for the story to continue. The author of this story found that his book was a great success and states on his homepage that there will be another book based on this story.
Another 2 years pass and when you finally hold the third book in your hands and read it, it gets more and more exciting. So much new about this story, you can literally see it in front of you as everything took its course and maybe you can even guess how it will end.

2.5 years later the last book of this story appears. The cover is colourful, with a great title, what is written on the cover is exciting and promises a great few hours of reading. Now that you've finished reading this last book, you're sitting with the book in your hands and the only thing that comes to mind is, "Is that all?" What did I read there? You look to see if it's really the same author as the 3 books before...no doubt it's the same. You have questions, so many questions about the story, but the story is over now. So you exchange ideas with the other people who have also read this story and the others also have many questions. Together you decide to write a letter to the author with the questions you have about the story and in response you get the following... "Dear readers, thank you for the time you have spent with my books.
All these years you have been faithful to me, but I only have one answer to all your questions and that is "don't read my story too closely".

[Treesus]

snip.

I do see the point your trying to make to a point. The same cast has grown somewhat stale, and I think alot of people were hoping with the new "story arc" that we would see a mostly new cast, if not entirely new. While there IS some hope that may still happen, its dwindling. However alot of the issues you seem to be expounding on seem less tied to the scions and just how the story ended in general. Which I mean, yeah, some plot points did feel a little underwhelming. But I do have to question if some of those remaining plot points are going to be expounded on later or not. If so, its partly just a waiting game. From a person to person perspective, its just a "you do you" kinda thing. There are those who will enjoy the ending we got, and some who wont. Im kinda half and half personally, I still think shadowbringers is by FAR the better expansion when taken on its own story alone compared to EW being more of just a "wrapping things up". But that again brings up the question, why play still. Ideas of sunk cost time and money aside, you make it clear your pretty disappointed by the ending we got. Are you still playing because the story still holds at least enough interest for what remains, or are you just playing for the sake of playing. I think on a whole most people enjoyed EW, not that that outcome is right, but I think the story is going to continue on a "majority says" basis. If this ending was so disappointing, I dont currently see alot of reason to hope that newer stories will be much different. If they are, you can of course always return, but outside of debating ideas on the form, simple saying "I dint like it" has historically done very little unless its echoed by the masses. Playing other games is of course an option. Staying to see if the game rekindles your interest is another. At the end, a majority of the complaints you bring up are less "provable bad aspects" and more "I simply dislike it." Which is fine. Some I even agree with, some I dont. Its hard to say what to do in this situation. As someone whos left multiple mmos in the past, my suggest is just to go. Try something new. Theres so many games out there that its nearly impossible to not find something that suits your fancy. But the end decision is yours.

[MikkoAkure]

Imagine you buy a book and you buy it primarily because of the cover, the title and a little bit because of what's on the cover.

It's a bit too easy, but isn't there that famous saying "don't judge a book by it's cover"? And I don't understand why you need to make a whole allegory about the game being a book, we all understand how video games and expansions work because we've played it.

On topic, I wonder how what the percentages of people who didn't like EW compared to those who did is like when also taking into account people who got super into the Ancients and people who didn't. I didn't particularly associate with the Ancients because they're a long-dead precursor race we don't really have much to do with despite being reincarnated from one of the important ones. But just because our soul is partially one of them doesn't mean we are one and what's more important to our character is the survival of our own world since that's all we knew about our entire lives until our jaunts through Amaurot and Elpis. People getting way into them to the point they're making signatures about how bad Venat is reminds me that the word "fan" is short for "fanatic".

Despite liking the Elpis parts of the story better than the rest, I wonder if the whole story would have been less controversial if we never went there and instead of the Venat we got, we had a 100% super good and unproblematic Venat and the Sundering was her accidentally kicking Zodiark too hard.

As for the Scions, love them or hate them, they're pretty much the only thing tying the game together at this point and probably will into the future as well. ARR was all the Scions together, HW was 2 Scions + guests, SB was (mostly) 2 Scions, and ShB and EW were "the whole team back together again, plus 1 guest". If it weren't for them, a lot of the story wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't have had a home base. I hope they can introduce new blood that are completely fresh and aren't scrapped from old job quests, but I don't see them going away altogether.

[SentioftheHoukai]

It's a bit too easy, but isn't there that famous saying "don't judge a book by it's cover"? And I don't understand why you need to make a whole allegory about the game being a book, we all understand how video games and expansions work because we've played it.

On topic, I wonder how what the percentages of people who didn't like EW compared to those who did is like when also taking into account people who got super into the Ancients and people who didn't. I didn't particularly associate with the Ancients because they're a long-dead precursor race we don't really have much to do with despite being reincarnated from one of the important ones. But just because our soul is partially one of them doesn't mean we are one and what's more important to our character is the survival of our own world since that's all we knew about our entire lives until our jaunts through Amaurot and Elpis. People getting way into them to the point they're making signatures about how bad Venat is reminds me that the word "fan" is short for "fanatic".

Despite liking the Elpis parts of the story better than the rest, I wonder if the whole story would have been less controversial if we never went there and instead of the Venat we got, we had a 100% super good and unproblematic Venat and the Sundering was her accidentally kicking Zodiark too hard.

As for the Scions, love them or hate them, they're pretty much the only thing tying the game together at this point and probably will into the future as well. ARR was all the Scions together, HW was 2 Scions + guests, SB was (mostly) 2 Scions, and ShB and EW were "the whole team back together again, plus 1 guest". If it weren't for them, a lot of the story wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't have had a home base. I hope they can introduce new blood that are completely fresh and aren't scrapped from old job quests, but I don't see them going away altogether.

In the future, Mikko it may behoove you to remember that for all of us who rabidly defend anything Ancient and Ascian and Zodiark and Garlean, there are an equally equivalent amount of "fanatics" consistently crowing on about how morally upright Venat is. In other words, when considering whether to throw out a slanderous accusation on a public forum board, it may be wise to weightily consider whether engaging in disingenuous insinuations may make a hypocrite of oneself.

As for Venat, it is by dictionary definition that her actions in performing the Sundering was explicitly an act of genocide. No amount of feelings or "I don't consider it genocide, though!" or "It was the only way and thus, justified!" will change this unavoidable, undeniable fact. Indeed, I run the risk of puking entertaining the thought that genocide justification is a thing here after so much crowing on during Shadowbringers on how it would NEVER be acceptable of an outcome.



In summary, how may I ask is Hydaelyn or any of her supporters in game or out any morally superior than THIS MAN and his people? Especially with everything we know now, all that we learned in the Q&A why does Venat get special treatment? By all rights, these revelations should have soured y'all to her and her philosophy and actions.

The complete erasure of the culture of a people counts as such a heinous crime, even if the peoples themselves yet remain amongst the living. Continuing the trend of such ignominy being deemed acceptable when perpetrated by the protagonist and company, Garlemald attempted (and yet failed) to do this to the city-state of Ala Mhigo in Stormblood through the medium of cultural appropriation, and were deemed evil warlords that must be stopped at all costs for it (and rightly so, I've never once disagreed with this. Regrettable, the opposite equivalence is not present). No traceable remnants of Ancient culture yet remain on the Source and its Shards, and the Ancient people are all but deceased as of the finale of Endwalker. This result can be laid squarely at the feet of Hydaelyn. Yet despite this unavoidable fact, aside from a single line of self-aggrandizement (which denigrates its worth in the process) not once is she rightfully villainized for it. Instead her victims are perpetually blamed for bringing their demise upon themselves. To this day, I struggle to comprehend just why and/or how the concept of a sub-group of fans sympathizing more with the oppressed and executed culture over the supreme deity who dealt them such a lamentable (and indeed, PREVENTABLE!) fate to them is such a heinous, unthinkable crime to y'all on this forum.

[Larirawiel]

As for Venat, it is by dictionary definition that her actions in performing the Sundering was explicitly an act of genocide. The complete erasure of the culture of a people counts as such a heinous crime, even if the peoples themselves yet remain amongst the living.

True. But such acts are typical for the ancients. They have no problems with erasing something if it does not meet their expectations. You see it in Elpis, where the wolf-like creatures are killed, Hades wants to erase you from the weave of history, Venat erases the ancients etc.


Cheers