Chainsaw's Instant Kill should be removed

[Vatom]

This entire thread has become buttblasted MCH players.

Is saw proc really that painful?

[Issaella]

Sounds like you only play FL and likely just for EXP - and while I agree they should introduce FL balances without big blankets, OHKO should be removed still, thanks.

Now that I've finished the 10 wins on both my character, yes. I used to play FL for fun. I refuse to play CC beyond a one-off for Tails, because I hate the gameplay. FL at this point is approaching more annoying/frustrating than fun (especially with the melee DPS changes in the last hotfix). The 6.1 changes pretty much walled off an entire portion of the game for me, because I don't like how it plays anymore. If you want my honest opinion, there was no reason to mess with abilities/jobs in FL at all. They could have just made CC a completely separate mode instead of trying to shoehorn the new jobs into FL as well and utterly failing in the process.

[AnnRam]

-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.

-As a mch, you really can't do much with a mnk trying to focus you and chase you down, you can even try it yourself, reachong the 7th's attack in mnk doesn't take even long as a mch you can problem knock them back which can make them just back to you, OR they can simply reach that point of the combo by doing it on your team mate and you are the main target and 10 sec is a LONG time for that to reset lol, so please.

-mch does need improvement and somehow a small defensive cooldown or whatever, besides who plays frontlines seriously, I was talking all of that based on ranked CC.



None of the above CCs can really save you from a 60k+ health melee/tank that is just focusing you and annoying you unless you get to kill them first, more so having the chance of 3% that you MIGHT instantly kill them which will most likely not happen.

Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you? Also of course you can attack and move at the same time.
MCH its basically a fully ranged NIN without Seiton Tenchu, at medium BH you can kill any range job with Analysis+Drill/Air Anchor+MS , sometimes MS pops for over 40k damage if the target its affected with debuffs.

Just don't bother trying to kill a MNK/REAPER specially when they have all their defensives CD up.

[AnnRam]

- The knockback on Scatter is negligible and can be gap-closed instantly to reengage. Plus it has a hefty delay, I've frequently had it take >1sec before they actually get moved away from me in FL. Ive also frequently died due to the delay because they get in a cooldown before it punts them.
- The shield on Bishop is a joke, it's a GCD to throw it with a ground target circle. On top of that, there is a significant delay before the shield pulses. And even if it actually has time to pulse with it's piddly range, the 6000 potency shield absorbs like half of one hit from a melee DPS.
- As to you remaining points, MCH can't chose what action they are on. AA stun is not on-demand if they are on Drill or Saw. Similarly you can't bind/stun if you are on Bioblaster unless you are already in melee range to get off it and then wait the GCD to use AA. To even use the Heavy on Bioblaster you have to close to melee range, which is moronic to begin with due to the lack of defenses. What is the thought process there to design it that way? "Here's what MCH need in PvP, an ability that makes them move into into prime range for that melee DPS so that they can slow them down then turn around and run away while the melee DPS sprint/gap-close and stomp them anyway." That seems like a super-smart plan and not suicidal at all.

-You are not supposed to use Scattergun as an escape tool (Well you can still use Guard+SC+Sprint and get away easily), it deals around 10-20k depending of your BH status, also its probably the most annoying AOE knockback because its comes in a sight delay catching people off guard specially in maps like the Borderland Ruins

-Bishop isn't a joke, meanwhile you get a shield (Pretty much like Thunderclap potency) that can SAVE YOU from death the melee job in your face gets a nicely AOE10% damage debuff. Please you are playing a range JOB, even when MCH has almost everything in his kit he should be vulnerable at some point.

-NIN kinda have the same issue, once you drop any of the Three Mudras it gets locked until you use something else, you are not forced to use everything in one target and you actually can rotate without issues around, Bio Blaster its there to help you clean the area the addition of 75%+Heavy for 3 seconds can be dead sentence for most Melee jobs that gets affected with it also having a range of 12 yards isn't exactly being at melee range plus can be used in movement . I have zero issues dealing with NINs or DRG that pops in my face as soon they get in my range, even if I get stunlock first before preparing the terrain (Aether Morthar+Bioblast+SC) MCH have plenty of tools to rotate and play around against almost everything he is a job that counters mostly Range ones (SMN/Bard/Dances/WHM/AST etc)

SE clearly wanted range jobs to experiment close-gap engagements instead of staying 20 yards away spamming basic abilities like in the previous PVP version.


The problem right now isn't MCH being bad its because the DEF buff + Guard its making dumb players to make huge mistakes and get away easily.



(For those saying that MCH sucks and deal 0 damage or get kills).

[Issaella]

*snip*

I'm not going through that point by point because half of it I've already refuted anyway and the rest, I don't have the energy. What you said there can basically be translated "when under ideal circumstance, when the moon is full, during the conjunction with Saturn, while the Perseid meteor shower is at it's peak MCH can top the charts." And for reference the scoreboard you posted is meaningless because all anyone knows you were in a 4 stack with the SMN and WHM finishing off their targets for them.

Bioblaster snare/heavy is useless 90% of the time in FL because it forces you into melee range where you are sitting duck. Any time I use it in a team fight I immediate get focused/stunned/snared/charmed and blown up. Regardless, the melee DPS can immediately a) Purify it and run you down or b) gap-close and stun/snare you. The shield on Bishop requires a GCD to throw it out (while any melee DPS just bunny-hops and strafes around you to try and break targeting, al la old-school WoW) and enough delay before it proc that any melee DPS except maybe DRG can blow their burst and kill you before it pulses, that's if they just don't knockback you out of it to begin with (why bother IMO). It's range is pathetic, which forces you to either stand around and get the crap kicked out of you while is pulses a minuscule shield every few second or just run and cut your losses. The 10% damage buff is also a joke, because against a melee DPS or tank its significantly less than the flat DR they got in the last patch. 10% increase in crap damage is still crap.

Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you?

a) Because there is no guarantee that you will be on the ability that gives those when you need it, since it's on a 4 ability cycle with 2 charges and no ability to control the order or skip over one.
b) Any of those debuffs can be immediately Purified and they can run you down anyway.
c) 10% bonus to damage is completely useless against a melee DPS or tank that got 2x that in DR with the last patch. As I said above, +10% of crap damage is still crap.

[Nikoto]

Now that I've finished the 10 wins on both my character, yes. I used to play FL for fun. I refuse to play CC beyond a one-off for Tails, because I hate the gameplay. FL at this point is approaching more annoying/frustrating than fun (especially with the melee DPS changes in the last hotfix). The 6.1 changes pretty much walled off an entire portion of the game for me, because I don't like how it plays anymore. If you want my honest opinion, there was no reason to mess with abilities/jobs in FL at all. They could have just made CC a completely separate mode instead of trying to shoehorn the new jobs into FL as well and utterly failing in the process.

Honestly wouldn't mind the feast abilities back in FL, tbh and then the new ones for CC.

[Leathium]

what kind of crystal rank be smart enough to group up together get owned by sam LB XD? 30s recast time with chiten are you really sure is short when people can die with less 10s with 2-3 people burst single guy?

Easy, imagine you need to push the crystal from your side to the enemy side, with your team at least 2-3 on the crystal so it moves faster in overtime, which will result on some sneaky sam that will cast chiton and then guard to stop the crystal from moving, in the moment of panic at least 1-2 players will touch the sam, OH NO WE GOT DEBUFFED, and then the sam LB killing 2 of the 3 on crystal.

Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you? Also of course you can attack and move at the same time.
MCH its basically a fully ranged NIN without Seiton Tenchu, at medium BH you can kill any range job with Analysis+Drill/Air Anchor+MS , sometimes MS pops for over 40k damage if the target its affected with debuffs.

Just don't bother trying to kill a MNK/REAPER specially when they have all their defensives CD up.

52.500 HP is basically as low as a smn or a healer, which is not even the whole point, plus as someone already said you can NOT choose which CC you want at well, while you can do that for other melees, you can bind you can stun, you can slow you CHOOSE which CC you want to apply anytime with other classes, in mch it goes like this, you start with drill as you spawn into the match, you use the drill with analysis, then wait, okay now you can do the blaster CC which is 75% heavy, oh no you have to wait for analysis also to recharge/cooldown okay! now we are done with heavy CC, the next skill after blaster is you either use it alone to "Bind" OR you wait analysis to recharge and then well you stun with it instead, and if you die, you respawn with drill, you dont respawn with what you were at, so basically you have to go through the whole process again to get your CCs back up and ready to use or more like stay alive longer, chainsaw is basically the last skill in that set of cooldowns to finally MAYBE pull a 3% instant kill and that will most likely not proc, you can only pray and waste an analysis that you could use to buff your Drill instead, meanwhile a sam, they can stun you and bind you at well, ANYTIME, a Nin as well can heavy you, stun you, and have a ranged attack that does NOT slow them down and does NOT charge up a recast, again I'm speaking based on ranked CC I don't really consider FL is even worth complaining about because it's known as a gank fest.

[Knot_D]

Is saw proc really that painful?

Let's say I barely get that proc to others but others always get that proc to me...

[Bureda]

Counterpoint: Insta-kill should be increased to 10-15% against melee and tanks since that is the only way MCH has any chance to kill anything other than ranged now. Spite hits for only ~25-30% of the health of a melee or tank with the changes to DR. Reassemble + Drill/Saw/AA comboed with Spite now maybe does 50%. At which point the tank or melee turns around and then stunlocks and curb-stomps you into the ground.

Meanwhile a NIN can still stunlock, burst you to 50% and then execute before you can clear the Stun with Purge and even if you could, it hits you through Guard.

The PvP balance team currently consists of a monkey banging on a keyboard with a coconut.

Pretty sure MCH is the hardest hitting job in the game. Also MNK and DRG do way more damage than a NIN.

You're almost as out of touch as Square Enix with their PvP patches.

[george357]

i have mained brd mch dnc for a long time and their good jobs on mch i think they should keep chainsaw it works very well in main game and just because they hate it in pvp thats too bad keep it for mch.