Suggestion: The state of Classes and it's connection with Jobs

[Aragon]

OK. Will leave you alone then. Have fun posting your ideas and getting no feedback in the future if all your reasons are just "i want it this way".

You've just over stayed your welcome little guy, i post my suggestion for SE to see not for trolls. IF you're not a troll, Feedback is only good if its useful Feedback not mis interpretations of the op thread beating the same point over and over.

People hated to level 2 classes for 1 job because it took longer and they had to level a class they had no interest in playing.

That's not my suggestion and that's all to get 1 job.

2 classes for 1 job REINTRODUCES this problem for a lot of jobs.

MY SUGGESTION IS ONE CLASS FOR TWO+ JOBS.

No it doesn't, Its the opposite you already level a class from the start of the game and you only need level 1 class IF you want that Job but it unlocks access to multiple jobs 2 or 3+ anyways.

This is on top of the fact that all added jobs require you to have leveled another job.

Now you are just lying again, no where did i say you require to have leveled jobs to level another job.

People dislike this. Just because YOU don't care about it doesn't make this a non-issue. The Rogue -> Dancer stuff (probably among others) makes no logical sense as the class and job have no connection lore wise.

If all else fails ''muh lore'' villainous Rogues cant wear dressers oh no ''muh lore''

Will use this faulty logic to decrease all exp by 80% across all content. You can also reduce drops! Now you have to run the same content even more to get the same results!

If you would like to see that be a suggestion so much then go write your own thread on it yourself, once again i never suggested to decrease the xp by 80% across all content and then jump in a volcano and swim with sharks and then fly to the moon.

So every MMO starts at level 1 and jobs you can't start with need to have a class attached that starts at level 1 but jumping from 30 to 70 is fine? There clearly is no logic at all in your reasoning.

The only valid feedback you have made is this one, As i mentioned above they can connect it, its not an issue eventually we will be going to lvl 100 jobs so the classes ending at lvl 50 can be an option but that's something they explore. This is a suggestion based on the existence of Class not if they remove class in the future.

[BRVV]

I'm not repeating everything yet again. Was almost posting basically repeats. Your last answers shows that you didn't understand most of the stuff i said. How would your system help new players catch up? Not at all. All it does is make it potentially take more time to level some jobs because they now require classes. That's it.

The "muh lore" part of your answer is great. Do you know anything about storytelling or characters? About consequences? I laid out to you that the two are not connected at all. It was never about dresses by the way. Shows your comprehension skills. Are you 12 by any chance?

If classes would go up to level 50... maybe even further and each job requires a class (although yes WE ALL GET IT. ONE class for TWO jobs!!!) then why have jobs at all? So i can put on a new stone and be overwhelmed by that instand end level job because i had the other one leved?

My what-aboutism was trying to point out that your idea only makes things take longer. Nothing else.

[Anvaire]

No, this never used to be a thing, im proposing the exact opposite 1 class for 2 jobs, not 2 class for 1 job.

This is exactly how Summoner and Scholar are currently and it was terrible. Back in ARR when this system was first introduced it meant that often scholar would end up overpowered or Summoner under as they couldnt balance one without affecting the other. This is why now Scholar and Summoner skills are all but divorced from each other. Frankly, it just doesnt work. Levelling a job and getting one free brings other problems. In no expansion have i played Scholar. The reason being that i get it for free by playing and levelling summoner. I end up not knowing how to play SCH because I lost the hours of experience that levelling would give. Sure i can read the skills and have done, but i lack the experience of threading them all together. Sure i can spend some time to do this in end game but its a timesync and a detriment drawn directly from the system.

There is an argument to be had around the offshoot jobs - If they do not share anything with the base class, if they have no syergy of skills - then what is the point of the base class at all? I personally hope they rework the base classes into their own Jobs and divorce the GLD > Pld system alltogether. I think this would be the best solution and allow for some more interesting jobs in the long run. Its likely this won't ever happen and instead we would just see the classes removed entirely. or left as a remnant of a broken, ill thought out system.

[Aragon]

This is exactly how Summoner and Scholar are currently and it was terrible. Back in ARR when this system was first introduced it meant that often scholar would end up overpowered or Summoner under as they couldnt balance one without affecting the other. This is why now Scholar and Summoner skills are all but divorced from each other.

I completely agree I would consider them to be implemented as 2 separate jobs, so if they are currently intertwined then i disagree with how its currently implemented if that's the case.

Frankly, it just doesnt work. Levelling a job and getting one free brings other problems. In no expansion have i played Scholar. The reason being that i get it for free by playing and levelling summoner. I end up not knowing how to play SCH because I lost the hours of experience that levelling would give. Sure i can read the skills and have done, but i lack the experience of threading them all together. Sure i can spend some time to do this in end game but its a timesync and a detriment drawn directly from the system.

In this case, your Summoner would be say level 69 and if you go to the 'Arcanist' Guild NPCs you can pick up Scholar at level 30 and have that leveling experience. I think the issue you've expressed points towards a prevalent present system that hands jobs straight at level 80 70 or 90 off the gate having access to higher challenges without even knowing what its about and lacking that experience you mention.

There is an argument to be had around the offshoot jobs - If they do not share anything with the base class, if they have no syergy of skills - then what is the point of the base class at all? I personally hope they rework the base classes into their own Jobs and divorce the GLD > Pld system alltogether. I think this would be the best solution and allow for some more interesting jobs in the long run. Its likely this won't ever happen and instead we would just see the classes removed entirely. or left as a remnant of a broken, ill thought out system.

Yeah exactly this is my preference also if they rework the base classes into their own Jobs and divorce the GLD > Pld system alltogether. I think it's going to be a challenge since there would need to be a starting job for a newly created character, I actually think they may be unable to rid of Classes. I do like the idea of a class our character is born into but it is such a broad idea could be a status symbol, status system, or maybe even related to DOL/DOH.

[SaberMaxwell]

Can't see a good reason to implement this. For one, GLD>PLD use the same framework; fast blad etc that DRK does not. For two, there is no benefit to the proposed system; it doesn't open up space for new jobs or make jobs easier to design, it just clutters the design space.

I liked 2 classes to one job back in the day because it made a job feel like an evolution on a class based on the skills learned from another class. One class two jobs feels like an awkward attempt to shoehorn specs into a game where one can already play all jobs.

[BRVV]

I completely agree I would consider them to be implemented as 2 separate jobs, so if they are currently intertwined then i disagree with how its currently implemented if that's the case.

In this case, your Summoner would be say level 69 and if you go to the 'Arcanist' Guild NPCs you can pick up Scholar at level 30 and have that leveling experience. I think the issue you've expressed points towards a prevalent present system that hands jobs straight at level 80 70 or 90 off the gate having access to higher challenges without even knowing what its about and lacking that experience you mention.

1 class for 2 jobs has the same problem if they don't stop at a certain level. Shows that you didn't know that. That is probably why you put Scholar with Conjurer. A shield healer starting as a pure healer.

Yeah exactly this is my preference also if they rework the base classes into their own Jobs and divorce the GLD > Pld system alltogether. I think it's going to be a challenge since there would need to be a starting job for a newly created character, I actually think they may be unable to rid of Classes.

Starting job? We start with A CLASS. You must be trolling! (You brought this line of reasoning in when accidentally mixing job and class terminology)

[BRVV]

Here my biggest problem: What do you actually want? I *stupidly* assumed you only wanted what you specified. 1 Class for 2 jobs. In some post here you go like "hey let's make classes till level 50"... that's not how combat classes work. I guess i should have had the power to read your mind. When do classes stop? Never? At max level basically? Then you just halved the available classes (formerly jobs) effectively. That will go over well... if not then where do you stop? And how do i level? Let's say Dragoon and Reaper need the same class. Once i hit 30 i can become Dragoon. Let's also say i level as a dragoon to 70 now. Can i become a reaper now? Or do i need to level the class again? Or did the class get exp with the job (like current combat classes)? If so this will make Dragoon to level 70 become a requirement for Reaper. Not any job. This is what i meant. It seems to me that it only limits access to certain jobs. Nothing else. Let's look at it another way. Dark Knight and Paladin share a class now. I got it to 30. I can unlock both. If i choose Dark Knight what was the reason to level the class? Keep in mind: I need to have a level 60 and be in Ishgard for Dark Knight anyhow. So why those levels? To get into the role? Maybe it's my first tank and that is actually fair. However i leveled a basic version of Paladin NOT Dark Knight. Now i have a greater chance to play badly (if i'm new). Third example: If White Mage and Scholar share a class... i level that pure healer and then become a scholar. Now i probably overheal and forget my fairy at first since Scholar plays different then Conjurer.

Yeah exactly this is my preference also if they rework the base classes into their own Jobs and divorce the GLD > Pld system alltogether.

Most people argue EXACTLY the other way around. We now have more jobs that classes (just speaking about battle jobs & classes). So why the classes? Would you be OK with everything being a job? I mean what if they removed classes, let all jobs that had them start at lvl 1 (and maybe let every job start at lvl 1) and turn DoH and DoL to "Jobs" (maybe just in name) and call it a day?

[Aragon]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

My Gosh how many times do i have to repeat myself?

If classes would go up to level 50... maybe even further and each job requires a class (although yes WE ALL GET IT. ONE class for TWO jobs!!!) then why have jobs at all? So i can put on a new stone and be overwhelmed by that instand end level job because i had the other one leved? How would your system help new players catch up? Not at all.

Because once again like i said, It's very easy to level up classes now it take me 4 hrs to get a White Mage and on top of that like i said once again the Class and Job levels would be connected so you wouldnt have to level all the way up to 70,80 etc just to play Reaper you would get it at 30, 50. But you don't have to Level it if you don't want to duh.
And How fast they go doesn't specifically equate to catch up they still need to learn the basics with basic Class rotation before attempting the specified Advanced Jobs that would go with it.

My what-aboutism was trying to point out that your idea only makes things take longer. Nothing else.

dont hit the door on the way out.

[Aragon]

1 class for 2 jobs has the same problem if they don't stop at a certain level. Shows that you didn't know that. That is probably why you put Scholar with Conjurer. A shield healer starting as a pure healer.



Starting job? We start with A CLASS. You must be trolling! (You brought this line of reasoning in when accidentally mixing job and class terminology)

I was speaking on Anvaires comment and scenario, i wasnt talking to you or whatever crap you make up, dont you have a life ?

[Aragon]

Here my biggest problem: What do you actually want? I *stupidly* assumed you only wanted what you specified. 1 Class for 2 jobs. In some post here you go like "hey let's make classes till level 50"... that's not how combat classes work... BLAH BLAH BLAH.

So much semantics '' thats not how it work'' ''it can not work'' '' this that not work'' ''what is cap'' '' when is cap'' 'how is cap'' 'why is cap'' ''will there ever be cap again'' ''if we increase cap how cap'' you aren't smart, its tedious mental gymnastic circular arguments, you've run your course.

Most people argue EXACTLY the other way around. We now have more jobs that classes (just speaking about battle jobs & classes). So why the classes? Would you be OK with everything being a job? I mean what if they removed classes, let all jobs that had them start at lvl 1 (and maybe let every job start at lvl 1) and turn DoH and DoL to "Jobs" (maybe just in name) and call it a day?

Most people, Who are these most people? how do you even quantify that most people on the globe 8 billion people agree? did you ask them for a poll ? as in your imaginary friends? Did you fly to outer space and take a picture of them with their thumbs up? okay dude most people in globe agree with mee, most people say i am right see i can pull this sht out of my own as too.