Novice Ocean Fishing Guide by Caimie Tsukino

[Tyonto]

First thanks for taking it into consideration. I hope I don't come across as hostile/rude; I'm just person-who-collects-a-lot-of-ocean-fishing data and is passionate about it and teaching people that it is not as difficult to do well in it as it seems. So I appreciate you creating something to help people who are new.

Indeed the bite times are not totally accurate. But at least they provide good references. However, if we're to filter by baits to get the most accurate bite time, I think it'll drive most novice fishers crazy.

I would agree with this in terms of telling people they have to do it. The point I'm trying to make is simply to mention it because as the bite times display it is providing a flat-out wrong picture in most circumstances, making things seem harder and more unapproachable than they are.
The non-ocean fishing baits which are usable and Versatile Lure create longer bite times. To my knowledge Lulu's does not include Versatile timings in the "All bait" data but does include the non-ocean fishing bait which is usable in the spectral currents.
An example of what I mean: "All baits" displays Titanshell Crab/Mythril Boxfish/Jetborne Manta with a 2-6s bite time. If you filter the baits individually you see 2s for Ragworm/Krill/Plump Worm and the only time you see the 3-6s bite times are on Versatile/Squid Strip.
Squid Strip is only relevant when fishing for Hafgufa, which is likely beyond the scope of a novice fisher trying to score and not at all in the scope of the guide. If going to continue to use Lulu's timings, accounting for every discrepancy like this is overwhelming, I agree, but I believe it is good to at least state since by default the site creates the illusion of bite times and overlaps that cannot exist when actually following the bait the guide itself says to use. Basically a "these are the times you see on the site but if you want a more accurate picture, you can do this."

I think it's definitely worth mentioning about the advantages of using TH on crabs/fugu/sharks during Spectral as it is definitely great for fulfilling the mission objectives while getting a ton of points. However, it doesn't change the fact that landing on the 'best fish' with a combo will immediately get you 3K to 5K points, which is probably more than fulfilling a mission objective + the pts earned from the TH on crabs/fugu/sharks.

In terms of raw points, yes. In terms of consistency and 10k practicality, no. But this ultimately boils down to: what is the point?
The intent appears to be "simplest way to get 10k" in which case, yes, what is stated is the simplest way in terms of player action. It is not the most reliable, nor is it the "easiest" from the standpoint of "how often can it be achieved" but it is "easiest" in terms of "effort the guide user needs to expend." So either is valid and the point appears to be to provide the simplest or second definition of easiest way to approach, which for a novice is sensible.

And again, this is assuming the goal is 10k. 20k still can be done without any high-value fish but also and just like 10k is more consistently done without complete reliance on them but would involve a more nuanced guide to actually get the detail across meaningfully.

Wait, Precision Hookset for '!!!' Spectral fishes? I thought all '!!!' should use Powerful Hookset, and so far, that seems to work out quite well for me.

Hookset use in ocean fishing is the same as in the overworld, which means it is based on the fish size. Just like in the overworld ! is Precision and !! is Powerful. !!! fish of green rarity of higher in ocean fishing are like big fish in that they can be either Hookset.
For Hooksets in general: A fish with an average size of <20im means the fish will confidently be Precision and an average size of >30m will confidently be Powerful. 20~30im is a bit of a grey area.

There are six ocean fishing fish in total which are Precision. The one I didn't mention above is Seafaring Toad, which is beyond the scope of this guide, but yes the five mentioned are also all Precision.
Here's some applied tests done:

The Spectral fish in general have a pretty high escape rate so even using the correct one they have a decently good chance of getting away but all of the above have average sizes in-line with being Precision Hookset fish as well.

Doesn't Devil's Sting has similar preferred bait of Krill, same '!!', and similar bite time as Titanshell Crab, Mistbeard's Cup & Flaming Eel? I though it'd be rather hard to distinguish it from the rest.
Meanwhile, Callichthyid & Jetborne Manta are both Plump Worm and '!!!', which can be easily distinguished from the rest, and both are ok to spend GP on. For a novice fisher, these '!!!' fishes would be a easier choice than trying to catch Devil's Sting, right?

Devil's Sting requires Krill, has a !! bite but bites much later than Titanshell Crab or Mistbeard's Cup. Flaming Eel is a !! bite whose bite time overlaps with it but it is not available when Devil's Sting is. Flaming Eel is Sunset, Devil's Sting is Day.
This table is showing accurate macro-based timings:

The blue highlights are what the fish is most likely to bite on (or the required one, not account for Versatile Lure), the green ones mean the fish can bite on that bait but they have lower bite rates.
On any ocean fishing bait: Titanshell Crab is an "instant" bite which displays as 2-3s, stopping exactly as your macro timer hits 3s and Mistbeard's Cup is 3-4s, but won't bite exactly when your macro hits 3s. Devil's Sting starts biting much, much later and does not overlap with them in any way.

The example with Titanshell and Mistbeard's Cup's timings is a good example for most of the low-point high-yield DHx4/THx7 fish and how they can be blind THed, but it might appear difficult (but in practice is not really). But, in text this difference is both difficult to explain properly and so is difficult for novices to grasp, so I would agree that trying to get this across in a guide aimed at novices is not worth going into detail on and keeping it to the easy one of Jetborne Manta is appropriate but it can bite using Krill too.
Devil's Sting bites so much later and has both a higher point value and better bite rate so I think this is worth mentioning. However, if going to continue to use Lulu's timings and/or not explaining theat at face value they don't express how they can be blind TH/DHed, the Callichthyid recommendation is the second version of "easier" stated above, so is sound if that is the approach being taken, but brought it up to highlight that Devil's Sting is flat-out better and also still very easy.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

I hope I don't come across as hostile/rude; I'm just person-who-collects-a-lot-of-ocean-fishing data and is passionate about it and teaching people that it is not as difficult to do well in it as it seems. So I appreciate you creating something to help people who are new.

Not at all! Seeing you with fewer than 10 posts made on the forum, but writing up such a long, informative, detailed reply on this thread, my spider tingling sense told me that you are a very experienced fisher, and you definitely know your game! I am just a newbie here. I think I (and a lot other people too) can benefit from your experience!

Hookset use in ocean fishing is the same as in the overworld, which means it is based on the fish size. Just like in the overworld ! is Precision and !! is Powerful. !!! fish of green rarity of higher in ocean fishing are like big fish in that they can be either Hookset.

For Hooksets in general: A fish with an average size of <20im means the fish will confidently be Precision and an average size of >30m will confidently be Powerful. 20~30im is a bit of a grey area.

There are six ocean fishing fish in total which are Precision. The one I didn't mention above is Seafaring Toad, which is beyond the scope of this guide, but yes the five mentioned are also all Precision.

Here's some applied tests done:

The Spectral fish in general have a pretty high escape rate so even using the correct one they have a decently good chance of getting away but all of the above have average sizes in-line with being Precision Hookset fish as well.

Dude, this is GOLD! This is important information and precious data that may rectify a common misconception! No wonder I kept missing the Shooting Stars and Ginkgo Fins! I did get them eventually with Powerful Hook, but the failure rate is horrendous. If I had known this earlier, I'd have a much better chance of catching them! Similarly, the Seafaring Toad has been ultra-elusive, and I failed sooo many times before finally getting it today:



If I had known this earlier, I might have gotten her much earlier!

And I cannot believe the Spectral Sea Bo, Butterfly and Discus favoring Precision instead of Powerful! Did you obtain these data yourself by testing? The advantage of using Precision is gigantic! And it's so hard to believe that HALF of the Spectral Fish would be favoring Precision instead! I need to make a note on this definitely. In fact, it's information that is very critical to the WHOLE ship's crew when trying to spawn Spectral Current!

Devil's Sting requires Krill, has a !! bite but bites much later than Titanshell Crab or Mistbeard's Cup. Flaming Eel is a !! bite whose bite time overlaps with it but it is not available when Devil's Sting is. Flaming Eel is Sunset, Devil's Sting is Day.
This table is showing accurate macro-based timings:

The blue highlights are what the fish is most likely to bite on (or the required one, not account for Versatile Lure), the green ones mean the fish can bite on that bait but they have lower bite rates.
On any ocean fishing bait: Titanshell Crab is an "instant" bite which displays as 2-3s, stopping exactly as your macro timer hits 3s and Mistbeard's Cup is 3-4s, but won't bite exactly when your macro hits 3s. Devil's Sting starts biting much, much later and does not overlap with them in any way.

The example with Titanshell and Mistbeard's Cup's timings is a good example for most of the low-point high-yield DHx4/THx7 fish and how they can be blind THed, but it might appear difficult (but in practice is not really). But, in text this difference is both difficult to explain properly and so is difficult for novices to grasp, so I would agree that trying to get this across in a guide aimed at novices is not worth going into detail on and keeping it to the easy one of Jetborne Manta is appropriate but it can bite using Krill too.
Devil's Sting bites so much later and has both a higher point value and better bite rate so I think this is worth mentioning. However, if going to continue to use Lulu's timings and/or not explaining theat at face value they don't express how they can be blind TH/DHed, the Callichthyid recommendation is the second version of "easier" stated above, so is sound if that is the approach being taken, but brought it up to highlight that Devil's Sting is flat-out better and also still very easy.

I see now. I should definitely include the recommendation of Devil's Sting for Daytime of Ciedalaes! Thanks!

[Fruity_Snacks]

Not at all! Seeing you with fewer than 10 posts made on the forum, but writing up such a long, informative, detailed reply on this thread, my spider tingling sense told me that you are a very experienced fisher, and you definitely know your game! I am just a newbie here. I think I (and a lot other people too) can benefit from your experience!

Not that I have much more posts, I will validate and back anything Tyo says as Very Good Information™ .

Guy literally wrote the book on Ocean Fishing.