Warrior PvP Feedback - experienced warriors

[Divinemights]

Sorry it took a bit for me to find it. It wasn't famitsu, but here's the interview.

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/202206030001/



Essentially it says it took them a year to plan it, but the team did not work on pvp the entire time as they also worked on other battle content and job designs. The interview also talked about ideas such as having a battle royal style mode with blue mages, but I imagine because they don't have a dedicated pvp dev group that ideas like that get pushed to the side due to pvp just never being popular in FFXIV.

I believe happy did a video on the article if you want a translation of the whole interview.

How I read this is, they do have a dedicated PvP team but this team is not only responsible for PvP only, they also taking up task from other features and that is why entire project took over a year

[Ransu]

How I read this is, they do have a dedicated PvP team but this team is not only responsible for PvP only, they also taking up task from other features and that is why entire project took over a year

And that is a problem in general. They need to hire more developers and build more dedicated teams for content.

[Gserpent]

I can hardly survive 3 or 4 seconds taking damage from the enemy, pile on the cost of Orogeny and it's instant death. I really hate it a lot.

I tried playing "safe" and "support" the team, but outside of a few cool moments where I help secure kills, most of the time I'm just not having fun, because I feel like I'm not even able to play the game.

There are zero classes that can just sit and tank 4 seconds of uninterrupted damage from the enemy team. Even with 4 recuperates, that only buys you another 1-2 sec at best. *You are not meant to be taking uninterrupted, unmitigated damage to the face in this mode.* There are no classes that can do that. Not even PLD or (tank) GNB can do that. DPS is very high relative to HP pools.

I really think you should try playing other classes. But be aware that there are *no* classes that can just Leeroy into a competent enemy team and survive without their team supporting them and protecting them. MNK is going to be the best at performing this, but if your team doesn't back you up you're just going to feed.

It may be that PvP ain't for you. Any melee or tank class *must* exercise caution and timing when choosing when and how to initiate against competent opponents - it's how they're balanced against ranged and casters. If you just want to unga bunga... well, at least FL allows that these days. Maybe try FL instead of CC?

[NyneSwordz]

I'm not talking about Leroy-ing into a full group. But how can I play when I can't even survive for 3 or 4 seconds against 3 or even just 2 melee dps jobs?

Oh, and Orogeny potency buff is nice on paper, but in practice, it a completely useless action 90 percent of the time. Outside of kill-stealing Orogeny really, really is a completely unusable action in ranked play.

I'd rather they nerf the damage to 5,000 and remove the health cost.

[NyneSwordz]

Damage is so high in this game right now that the 10% damage reduction on Orogeny isn't worth the 12,600 hp loss. In any situation where it would be beneficial on paper to use Orogeny, i.e., hitting multiple opponents with it, it is ACTUALLY not beneficial to use it at all because of the risk of death due to the high burst damage so many jobs have coupled with the outrageous health cost on Orogeny.

I wonder if any of the developers even play Warrior or tried to play it through ranked...

[Ransu]

Only reason to really ever use orogeny honestly is during LB to get some burst.

[Gserpent]

Damage is so high in this game right now that the 10% damage reduction on Orogeny isn't worth the 12,600 hp loss. In any situation where it would be beneficial on paper to use Orogeny, i.e., hitting multiple opponents with it, it is ACTUALLY not beneficial to use it at all because of the risk of death due to the high burst damage so many jobs have coupled with the outrageous health cost on Orogeny.

I wonder if any of the developers even play Warrior or tried to play it through ranked...

"Damage is so high" is exactly why that 10% matters.

Like, think about. If burst damage is so high people explode in the space of a few seconds, then you want to do whatever possible to reduce that damage the enemy is doing and/or increase the damage you are dealing to them.

Vuln up/damage down effects are *very* powerful. And WAR has both, plus draw-in, plus AOE stun, all of which are on short cooldowns and all of which deal decent damage. WAR has substantial burst available in LB - 50.6k damage in two GCDs (Onslaught, Chaotic Cyclone or Primal Rend, weave Orogeny, Primal Rend or Chaotic Cyclone) with an additional 12k on the following GCD, during which they are immune to nearly all CC and have permanent sprint up.

So WAR *has* to give up something in order to be balanced here, and what they give up is durability.

[Ransu]

Then make the hp penalty to only apply the LB? They shouldn't have to deal with that design outside of LB.

[NyneSwordz]

"Damage is so high" is exactly why that 10% matters.

Like, think about. If burst damage is so high people explode in the space of a few seconds, then you want to do whatever possible to reduce that damage the enemy is doing and/or increase the damage you are dealing to them.

Vuln up/damage down effects are *very* powerful. And WAR has both, plus draw-in, plus AOE stun, all of which are on short cooldowns and all of which deal decent damage. WAR has substantial burst available in LB - 50.6k damage in two GCDs (Onslaught, Chaotic Cyclone or Primal Rend, weave Orogeny, Primal Rend or Chaotic Cyclone) with an additional 12k on the following GCD, during which they are immune to nearly all CC and have permanent sprint up.

So WAR *has* to give up something in order to be balanced here, and what they give up is durability.

The problem is burst is so high that 10% damage reduction won't make a difference in whether someone survives that damage.

Also, yes, damage is high during LB, but that damage, like you said, is spread across multiple attacks. It gives enemies a chance to use their defensive cooldown or mash on recuperate. The reality is if the rest of the team isn't on point to make use of the War's LB, he ends up dealing a lot of damage without making any kills. Also, Orogeny and Onslaught, although they do additional damage under LB, they ALSO cost additional health to use.

It's almost not worth using either during LB sometimes, as you can tell pretty quickly whether your team is going to make use of that window of opportunity to net kills.

And outside of LB, Orogeny is still useless 99% of the time - even though it does decent damage. It's good for finishing someone off, in which case, the 10% damage down is completely unused.

The health cost is completely absurd in a game where burst damage is so high.

I'm all for balance. And if it takes reducing War's potency for War's to get back some durability, that's fine. I'm all for it. Because it is 1000% unfun right now having an action that is useless and gets me killed more than it helps.

Like I said, reduce Onslaught and Orogeny potency by half, eliminate the health cost, and it would be more useful than it is now.

Lastly, I'm all for balance. I understand that there needs to be some give and take. But giving Wars good dps ON PAPER while making War durability paper thin is not balanced. In actual play, Wars don't get anywhere near the dps that their actions say they should on paper, because they can't make use of it all with their meagre heals, might-as-well-not-exist health shield on blood whetting, and absurd health cost on actions.

Lastly lastly, LB animation lock costing 2 seconds of inner release is pretty absurd. Can we do something about this so that Wars can actually get 15 seconds of inner release instead of 12.5 or whatever?

[Gserpent]

Damage down *absolutely* makes a difference in whether or not an attack will or won't kill someone.