We lost 70% of our player base half a year in

[Shurrikhan]

People were inquiring on the forum about if they could dump their Steam-based client and go straight to the source. Some were even willing to shell out money for a brand new copy of FFXIV if they had to. That kind of negative pressure against the Steam-based client is clearly an important variable in this analysis. On its own, it indicates that the population of Steam-based FFXIV users is likely to be different than that of the native client users.

Then that would answer one (perhaps two) of those more directly relevant questions. Thank you.

My issue was only with the idea that it is solely on those who would not discriminate assumptively (i.e., would assume that every sub-group has significantly different characteristics and that what pertains to one sub-group cannot hint at trends among others). That demand is, essentially, to prove a negative -- that there are zero factors that could cause those using one launcher to respond differently to the game than those who use another.

That there are Steam launcher issues for XIV, specifically, that are significant enough to sour people to the game as whole is indeed an important factor. I still do not think that it makes other trends (such as when and why we tend to lose XIV activity among Steam players since expansion purchase on Steam, which -- having already been tunneled into Steam through prior purchases -- should not be as affected by the purchasing/licensing issues of XIV's Steam integration) nonrepresentative, even if that much more imprecise.

But, so long as we're not warranting the discrimination off ideas like *checks the last dozen pages*...

• that Steam players are disproportionately WoW players, who must therefore be inherently toxic;
• that Steam players' interests must be different because FPSs are sold on Steam;
• that Steam players aren't as likely to appreciate MMOs because people don't go to Steam for MMOs, despite that accounting for a pretty significant portion of overall activity, downloads, and post-purchase transactions;
• that any change in launcher is inherently a large enough change in itself to alter player perceptions of a given game; etc...

...then, that seems sensible.

[Shurrikhan]

Personal anecdotal evidence is fine. Please refine your thoughts though. Do most of the players you've gotten to know run every MMO through Steam?

Of those within my generation or younger, not all, but most run through Steam directly, perhaps for the log-in skip or the ability to launch games from the taskbar jumplist, etc. For a couple who played MMOs that were not sold on Steam at the time, they added the game to Steam (per "Add a Non-Steam game to My Library") just for the convenience of, again, placing favorite games in one place.

Do they only play PC games, or are there a subset of console players as well?

Most also play console; having a decent PC is not mutually exclusive with owning a console.

How many of those players who use Steam to play are on a non-supported platform such as Linux?

??? Steam has far better Linux support than does the official XIV launcher. There's a rather large Linux-based Steam community at this point...

But, maybe 5-6 Linux users among them?

My own personal anecdotal evidence, over a 40 year period, is that most multiplayer games (including MMOs) are purchased direct, and do not require the Steam Launcher to be running.

Most Steam integrations aren't as wonky as XIV's. I could turn off Steam itself while playing other MMOs purchased on Steam. I could access NW or GW2, purchased on Steam, via the official launcher, too, if I so wished.

A good number of them play games on consoles, where Steam isn't even an option.

Yes, Steam is not an option... on consoles. But one can use Steam, on their PC... while still spending most of their gaming hours on a console. One might play GW2 on PC even while playing FF7R on PS5. They're not mutually exclusive.

[hunkygladiator]

Even if the populations have different characteristics, it is extremely unlikely that the decrease would not be significant on other platforms. Anyone's prior would be that the decrease is in the 50-75% range overall. If you think it's more like 15% overall you are out of touch with reality.

[Shurrikhan]

Even if the populations have different characteristics, it is extremely unlikely that the decrease would not be significant on other platforms. Anyone's prior would be that the decrease is in the 50-75% range overall. If you think it's more like 15% overall you are out of touch with reality.

While a mere 15% loss would be a nonsensical estimate for a game like this, there are other MMOs for which that level of variance around patches or expansion drops wouldn't be so unrealistic, and even here a 35-55% drop after patches or expansions seems to better fit trends we see in other MMOs with spikey participation (GW2, WoW, etc.).

[EaraGrace]

That's 78% of the population that was playing during the pre-6.1 content drought, as that 1.7 million number was recorded in early April. The difference between the current number and the December peak is much higher.

And the data I was comparing it to was at a similar point in the expansions lifecycle, so the comparison holds.

[Reap00]

People are actually still willing to take a post from this guy seriously? C'mon people. What does it take to open your eyes?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Of those within my generation or younger, not all, but most run through Steam directly, perhaps for the log-in skip or the ability to launch games from the taskbar jumplist, etc. For a couple who played MMOs that were not sold on Steam at the time, they added the game to Steam (per "Add a Non-Steam game to My Library") just for the convenience of, again, placing favorite games in one place.


Most also play console; having a decent PC is not mutually exclusive with owning a console.


??? Steam has far better Linux support than does the official XIV launcher. There's a rather large Linux-based Steam community at this point...

But, maybe 5-6 Linux users among them?


Most Steam integrations aren't as wonky as XIV's. I could turn off Steam itself while playing other MMOs purchased on Steam. I could access NW or GW2, purchased on Steam, via the official launcher, too, if I so wished.


Yes, Steam is not an option... on consoles. But one can use Steam, on their PC... while still spending most of their gaming hours on a console. One might play GW2 on PC even while playing FF7R on PS5. They're not mutually exclusive.

I'm in my 30s and avoid steam like the plague. I've had too many bad experiences with it to want to aggregate everyone on there. Losing connections due to maintenance in the middle of the day for instance.

I'd rather buy everything direct from the company, which is sadly becoming less of an option.

[Vahlnir]

I'm in my 30s and avoid steam like the plague. I've had too many bad experiences with it to want to aggregate everyone on there. Losing connections due to maintenance in the middle of the day for instance.

I'd rather buy everything direct from the company, which is sadly becoming less of an option.

Steam is great for single player games and the like. Not so much for MMOs, sadly.

[Striker44]

But, so long as we're not warranting the discrimination off ideas like *checks the last dozen pages*...

that Steam players are disproportionately WoW players, who must therefore be inherently toxic;
that Steam players' interests must be different because FPSs are sold on Steam;
that Steam players aren't as likely to appreciate MMOs because people don't go to Steam for MMOs, despite that accounting for a pretty significant portion of overall activity, downloads, and post-purchase transactions;
that any change in launcher is inherently a large enough change in itself to alter player perceptions of a given game; etc...

...then, that seems sensible.

So, we just ignore logical, reasonable arguments because we don't like that they effectively make what we desperately want to be true moot? *Curious look*

[george357]

if the game shuts down tommorow i will just uninstall it and find something else to play let the crazy people cry till their blue in the face i don't care am here to play the game and not protest every little thing.