Has anyone quit healing?

[Renathras]

Surprisingly I agree with your entire post except for 2 issues.

I've created, kicked, left FCs, and co-lead with about 20 statics in ffxiv alone and I can tell you there is nothing in this game worth losing friends over for a clear.
I much more prefer groups stay friend groups first, raid groups second as long as they started out that way.
If they started out as a raid group first and know what they signed up for then that's that.

The only thing I'm going to dispute is:


If this was talking about the quote you used from me, I never denied people in "my camp" used ad hominems nor was I trying to indicate they didn't.

And the only thing I'm actually curious about is this:



Why do you consider someone saying: "If you don't like it you can just go play in the corner."
comparable to: "We're going to change the system to more accommodate everyone, it should only lightly effect the group already having fun if at all."

Other than that I got nothing.

I like agreeing with people. It's nice.

To answer your last question:

Because (1) I estimate the probability of people being harassed for "continuing to play as they have" as much more likely than you seem to, (2) you're telling people to play in a corner, too, just a different corner, (3) I much more highly estimate the impairment this will have on people, and (4) this collectively shifts my view of it into a zero-sum game of sorts; it isn't win-win or all benefit-no cost.

The idea from the complex camp seems to be something GENERALLY along the lines of:

"(1) People can still be bad/play simple, (2) they just won't get to clear some content they can clear now, but (3) SURELY it'll be such a negligible loss and they don't bother to get good and adapt, so they probably either don't care or weren't cut out for that content anyway, so no loss, (4) win-win for everyone, let's do it, what's to lose?"

EDIT:

The reality is, I remember when people would berate healers for not DPSing (hell, people do it NOW), or not DPSing optimally ("I didn't see you in Cleric enough...! Why are you trolling us?!"), while ALSO berating healers for DPSing too much (not a thing NOW, but if party members start dropping because WHM was in the middle of his melee combo and can't be bothered/remember/break it to throw out a heal...) I've seen it happen, so I suspect it would happen again. And keep in mind, at the time I was ONLY doing casual content (I wasn't even doing Extremes until the VERY end of HW when I spent a Saturday afternoon getting my Bismark birdy...on SMN, of all things). So in 4 man casual dungeons. It's like how the community will berate tanks if they aren't doing wall to wall pulls - the game doesn't require or demand it, but anyone not doing it is berated as "wasting everyone's time".

So the idea that people can just keep healing as they are today and NOT be harassed for it is, I believe, a fiction.

The simple people will be FORCED to play more complex or suffer for it, even in casual content. As I've noted before in this thread (I think, several of these kinda blend together...), people complain about others not meeting "the meta" even in content that very clearly does not require it on even a basic level.

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The corner is just a different corner. Yoshi P told you to play in Ultimates to not be bored, you're telling simple players to play only in normals and not farm Extremes, get into Savage, or dare step foot in Ultimates. It's just a different corner, but same energy.

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As a person who does Extremes and has has finally stepped into Savages, I enjoy the content. I find healing engaging and challenging, especially when it's brand new, and even as I've got P1S semi-on farm (got...I dunno, 9 or 10 clears, somewhere in there), I find it enjoyable but still intense. And that's with my simple DPS kit. I've said before I'm a natural healer, my mind works great at deciding what healing tools are best for various situations. My mind does NOT work well with DPS rotations. It's a completely different mental skill. It's why my secondary role is tanking, not damage dealing. Tanking and healing (the healing part of healing) are situational based types of gameplay. You can be proactive, but you're responding to content. DPS is different. The focus is on repetition. It's like the difference between a guitarist and a drummer or bass. The latter have to maintain a constant, steady pace and rhythm while the former tends to dance about more with shifting pace and tome, pauses here or there, etc. A metronome vs free-form musical ad libing.

Under your proposed system, I would likely just never do Savage again, and might find Extremes more stress than they're worth. As these are MY form of endgame, you would be robbing me of that. So something absolutely IS lost. Something I actually value in my game experience.

Now, you can argue I can just "get better" and do it - but again, my mind doesn't work with DPS rotations. Anything harder than WAR I tend to lose my place in, and half the time I forget to refresh the stupid buff. But I can heal effectively in basically any game after 5-10 minutes reading tooltips and a few test heals to see about how much they fill up people's health bars while pressing a single DPS button over and over when not healing. A second if it's a situational thing (I like stuff like Ruin 2 I can use for movement as that's context based, and dislike stuff like Dia/Biolysis/Combust/EuDosis or damage output buffs like Storm's Eye that I have to remember to keep refreshing - though I do like Storm's Eye [WAR] better than stuff like Disembowel [DRG] since Eye stacks twice, 30 sec then 60 sec, so if you refresh it before it expires (8-10 seconds), you aren't hurting yourself, thus giving yourself a bigger window...I still don't LIKE it, as it feels like busywork to just remember to do, but it's preferable if I HAVE to deal with one of those upkeep buffs - again, metronome [DoTs/upkeep buffs] vs free-form ad lib.)

I don't remember the INTJ thing, but I'm the intuitive side, I remember that (don't remember what the counter part to that is...), and that's why the healing side of healing I find enjoyable and a natural fit, but the DPS side I do not.

This is also, btw, why I'm fine with the HEALING requirements being increased as a form of difficulty increase, as my mind works just fine dealing with higher damaging situations and selecting the correct heal for a given situation.

.

Leading to my ultimate conclusion:

The proposal is NOT, in fact, win-win/everyone wins/the complex side wins but the simple side loses nothing therefore we should do it as there's no reason not to.

While I can probably nudge myself up a step in rotational difficulty (I have tanked some Extremes on GNB, though I also absolutely parse gray when doing so, I think), the stress level would likely lead me to just not want to do it. And if I no longer have an end-game, I might become one of those people that only subs for MSQ. I might even just stop healing. Would you favor me with the same sorrow I would give you for that situation?

...and there are a lot of other people like me. Does Square want to lose all those subs? Do you?

.

This is specifically why I say if AT LEAST/ONLY ONE healer is kept the way it is, I'm fine with making the OTHER THREE complex. It would simultaneously allow you on the complex side to derive enjoyment from your playstyle while not excluding folks like me from having a shot at it.

THAT is the true win-win scenario. I'm just not sure why folks on the complex side are so adamantly against it. Every time I've suggested it, there is the insistence that ALL the healers must change, no exceptions. That even if one (WHM) is left somewhat alone, it needs at least two more damage abilities and some interaction between them, etc. And if it somehow does stay the same, it MUST do less damage and be non-competitive with the other healers.

...when if we just leave one alone and change the other three, the complex side is already getting EFFECTIVELY everything they've asked for - alleviating their boredom and making healing "fun" again for them. But the camp as a whole seems to be ill content unless they get it ALL. And that's what I don't understand as that's what makes it no longer win-win.

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Fair enough?

Or, at least, sufficient as an explanation?

[Xelanar]

I was told I should try ultimate, if I wanted challenging healing-based content.
I did (and I still do), only to find out that, guess what, healing Dragonsong's Reprise is NOT challenging at all. At least from a pure healer perspective. EVERYTHING in that fight resolves around mitigation. Mitigation here, mitigation there, mitigation everywhere. So... what exactly is my role in that fight then? As an Astrologian I have my bubble on a 60 second timer, and my neutral sect on a 2 minute timer. That's it. That's my contribution the fight.
There is no juggling around oGCDs, because everytime I need to heal my party back up, I have plenty oGCDs to chose from.
I remember TEA being way more demanding in terms of short-timed burst healing - which is what pure healers excel at.

But Dragonsong's Reprise just kicks pure healers into mostly spamming their respective DPS skills, to a point where I find Pandemonium Savage 4 more challenging to heal.

Dragonsong's Reprice has extremely tough mechanics all over the place. But sadly tough mechanics do not automatically translate into challenging HEALING content. I found that one out the hard way.

So basically this is driving me towards actually quitting my job as a healer. The only thing currently preventing me from doing so, is that I don't want my static to have to look for someone to replace me.

[KDSilver]

On one hand... I seriously consider dropping the role entirely because I'm extremely disappointed and sad about it since Shadowbringer...
But on the other hand, that's I know and do the best in this game and I'm constantly trying to find some gameplay experience that could potentially bring me joy again... because I like "healing"... but healer design is the worst...

[Semirhage]

This is specifically why I say if AT LEAST/ONLY ONE healer is kept the way it is, I'm fine with making the OTHER THREE complex. It would simultaneously allow you on the complex side to derive enjoyment from your playstyle while not excluding folks like me from having a shot at it.

THAT is the true win-win scenario. I'm just not sure why folks on the complex side are so adamantly against it. Every time I've suggested it, there is the insistence that ALL the healers must change, no exceptions. That even if one (WHM) is left somewhat alone, it needs at least two more damage abilities and some interaction between them, etc. And if it somehow does stay the same, it MUST do less damage and be non-competitive with the other healers.

...when if we just leave one alone and change the other three, the complex side is already getting EFFECTIVELY everything they've asked for - alleviating their boredom and making healing "fun" again for them. But the camp as a whole seems to be ill content unless they get it ALL. And that's what I don't understand as that's what makes it no longer win-win.

I enjoy WHM's aesthetic. I hate that it's been dumbed down to nearly as braindead as it's possible to make a job.

Why don't we create a fifth healer, call it Sylphie. It gets one spell: Glareholymedica. It costs 1 MP, deals 400 potency damage in an AOE with falloff damage, and heals the party for 300 potency.

Would you be willing to give up WHM to people who want it designed with actual kit interaction if you had that for doing Savage?

The corner is just a different corner. Yoshi P told you to play in Ultimates to not be bored, you're telling simple players to play only in normals and not farm Extremes, get into Savage, or dare step foot in Ultimates. It's just a different corner, but same energy.

That's LITERALLY the point of Savage/Ultimate. Everything's being dumbed down so that people can sleep through the content and still clear. If Savage/Ultimate, the content DESIGNED to cater to people who actually want to get good at the game, the content where difficulty is the point, is having said difficulty stripped from it, then I don't see why it's beyond the pale for people who enjoy difficult content to ask to at least be engaged in easy content.

[Mortex]

I was told I should try ultimate, if I wanted challenging healing-based content.
I did (and I still do), only to find out that, guess what, healing Dragonsong's Reprise is NOT challenging at all. At least from a pure healer perspective. EVERYTHING in that fight resolves around mitigation. Mitigation here, mitigation there, mitigation everywhere. So... what exactly is my role in that fight then? As an Astrologian I have my bubble on a 60 second timer, and my neutral sect on a 2 minute timer. That's it. That's my contribution the fight.
There is no juggling around oGCDs, because everytime I need to heal my party back up, I have plenty oGCDs to chose from.
I remember TEA being way more demanding in terms of short-timed burst healing - which is what pure healers excel at.

But Dragonsong's Reprise just kicks pure healers into mostly spamming their respective DPS skills, to a point where I find Pandemonium Savage 4 more challenging to heal.

Dragonsong's Reprice has extremely tough mechanics all over the place. But sadly tough mechanics do not automatically translate into challenging HEALING content. I found that one out the hard way.

So basically this is driving me towards actually quitting my job as a healer. The only thing currently preventing me from doing so, is that I don't want my static to have to look for someone to replace me.

Yeah the fight is best played with sage and scholar for the double % dmg reduce. It’s funny how the entire fight is build around 500 one shots were you could use the full party for the dmg reduce or take another shield healer and brute force the free 10 % dmg reduce every 30 seconds. I mean the tanks have too kitchen sink a lot of stuff not even clever use of these cds either.

[yotsuffy]

Please, bring WHM back.
I Miss her.

[Jkap_Goat]

Im enjoying FFXI WHM, such a busy job with buffs and managing MP, glad I'm a sub SCH

I should really get SCH to 99 and see how it is

[currentlemon]

Yeah, I'm quitting. For now at least. Before 6.0, I had a level 80 WHM. When the job did not get any major QoL changes, I tried SGE but I didn't like the job. SCH doesn't interest me since the changes made to it in 5.0. I haven't tried AST yet, but since the job is getting a rework soon, I might not touch it until then.

I'm actually playing around with other jobs at the moment. BRD will be my first new job in a while and I'm actually enjoying it. It's not a healer, but a support/dps role is usually how I prefer playing games like these.

[Desna]

I was a raid healer in World of Warcraft for 15 years before quitting it when the clear sexist attitude toward females became overwhelming (I left about 5 months before the whole scandal hit about Blizzard and how they treated women.) Won't have my money helping a company like that. Took up FF14 because I had friends playing it and they had for years and had been trying to get me to play...so...I made the move.

Why WoW turned into a garbage game aside from the sexist misoginistic junk.
1. They started dumbing the game down at the end of Wrath of the Lich King. Taking away talent tree depth, homogenizing classes. My Discipline Priest abruptly didn't play that differently from my Druid or Paladin healers. Took the fun out, when the diversity of playstyle was no longer sharp and clear from one class to the next.
2. They started catering to elitists that wanted faster easier play so they could slam through content and ignore mechanics. It took the challenge out. Sure you did things faster, but...that wasn't fun.
3. It started becoming more about speed. The Mythic plus attitude "Go go go!" made running things...miserable. All that mattered was how fast you were, how many mechanics you could ignore.(I'm seeing this in FFXIV now. Labyrinth of the Ancients is becoming a cess pool of toxic players who bash others if they want to do the mechanics, wait for people to watch Cutscenes, or just wait for everyone to reach the next boss, so is World of Darkness, where Mentors seem to endlessly be yelling at other players "Everyone in the belly, you don't worry about teams anymore looser" is something I've seen worded various ways out of Mentors left and right in there.)
4. Developers encouraging the toxic behavior by keeping things streamlined and easy so people could ignore mechanics if they were geared enough and enough of their buddies supported them doing that. WoW became far less fun to play when you started seeing groups clearing content without other classes. Like all tank groups clearing a raid, all DPS groups..healers started becoming less important and instead of putting things in place so that couldn't happen, so no Tank or DPS class could survive that level content without the support of a healer...they made healers into DPS hybrids and suddenly people started bashing healers for healing and yelling at them to dps and do more damage AND keep everyone alive while they ignored mechanics.This is something I'm seeing more and more of in FFxiv I was in a raid just this last week and the WHM said in party "Hey Sage, I'm not healing I'm working on my DPS so ya know...keep everyone up and watch the tank or we're in trouble." and when I protested? I was the one who got snapped at and told healers should be dpsing it was more important than them healing so the run went faster...go go go...just like World of Warcraft. It's....really sickening and saddening to see.

[Saraphin]

snip.

I've never played WoW, but I've played with some former WoW Raiders.

I got very much snapped at for "not playing" Dragoon right...then back when healing actually was needed in extreme/savage content, i was busting my proverbial balls keeping my team at a certain threshold so my cohealer (SCH) could make sure we wouldn't go down in flames.

EW? went into Zodiark EX a week in..and Solo Healed it on WHM...same with Hydelin EX (though my cohealer did have to help during adds, but...that was really about it from them). I didn't do Endsinger EX on healer because...first time in i didn't want to kill people, but..that was a mostly Solo Healed fight.

I mean...I could SOLO HEAL Aglaia...day 1. i feel kind of...let down by the dev team in some odd way? I won't stop healing, i enjoy healing, but it does seem like it's all becoming this 'race' and if you're not DPSing (I saw a Healer get harassed in a leveling Roulette for not DPSing...but the tank was getting their butts handed to them, so full heals on deck, you know?) you're "bad at your class".

Someone had the gall to go "Healers Adjust" in Aglaia...their own healers left them on the floor.

A lot of people go on and on about how we're so much better than the WoW Community, but after 4+ influxes...we're really just as bad at times.