What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Eisi]

If you want to tell a story about the end, about despair and about hope in spite of it all, what you need to do is you need to make these concepts resonate at every level. You can have big universal concepts like the fate of the other stars and dynamis and all that crap. But you need to make it resonate at a personal, character level as well.

The question the Endwalker story should have tried to induce in the players is: With everything that happened, why should we go on? And not on a meta level (why should we go on if the story is so shit?).

There is in my opinion no substitute for character death when it comes to finality, for left regrets, things unsaid, for fate inescapable, death is the ultimate end and thus should have been a major part of Endwalker. Imagine if Alphy had died and his dad had just MISSED the chance to tell him what his son really meant to him? THAT is despair. Imagine Alisaie giving Zenos her bit of advice as a consequence of her having grown BEYOND revenge and seeing him for the pitiable bum he really is? That is someone who is able to move on in spite of it all. Isn't this what Endwalker was going for thematically? They could have gone in a fantastic direction with all this.

Also, imagine a main character dying in future expansions. Endwalker was the perfect place for it, I just can't see it happen in a satisfying way anymore, it would rehash the theme of Endwalker better than Endwalker. Satisfying in a horror kind of way, I don't enjoy characters dying in a sadistic fashion of course.



All that said the Urianger quest on the moon was great tho.

[Rulakir]

Reminder this thread has a discord where you can mald in real time. :P

Biggest moment of jolt, was probably in the Elpis scenario, realizing everything is predetermined, the literal, "Chosen One", not just some random person who fought against concepts of fate and destinies, but was all along predetermined on a path they had no real choice over. Complete and utter manipulation of entire of the person's fate. There never was any question of whom or what you were, you were always just some special 'Chosen X' from the past soul, your individuality hasn't changed or anything, no real character progression actually, you were the same then as you are now, somehow. All the deaths, calculated to the predestined need of the moment. Makes things rather cold, calculated, and very sinister.

Exactly this. It's even worse when you factor in that Azem was Venat's protege and that she knew she was not only condemning Emet by sparing him, but also all of the souls within Zodiark as well (which include Hythlodaeus) who would be in indefinite purgatory. Not to mention that she knew of the bond between Azem and Emet and banked on that as part of her plan, so the whole thing was also grossly emotionally manipulative. I will forever be salty that Emet didn't rip her a new one in UT. Incidentally, the fact that people include Venat in the "trio" with Emet and Hyth is absolutely galling to me after what she did to them. Hell, the fact that the WoL does not seem to care even a little bit that Venat essentially murdered their original self I'll never understand, nor the community's complete willingness to overlook it either.

Regardless :P, yes, the time loop unfortunately not only ruined EW, but retroactively the rest of the game. I can't fathom why they thought this was a good idea. My best explanation is they thought a 'full circle' storyline would be nice when, instead, it just makes Venat look like a monster and every other character look like pawns in her sick game. The WoL was groomed by her and when people bring up, "How could we think Hydaelyn's evil when she's helped us?" Literally her entire plan rests on the WoL, she has a vested interest in them not dying so of course she's going to pull out all the stops. I've seen so many people compare her actions to an abusive relationship (familial or otherwise) and saying she's a textbook example of a narcissist.

[Rosenstrauch]

I hate to rob your joy here, but that is the exact point at which I felt the quality of that story begins to plummet.

Well, I am nowhere near done with halfway or so through with the Citadel DLC and, let me tell you, I pity the dead who can no longer know such joys.

The whole DLC has been a riot. The actual plot was over and done with pretty quickly, and now it's just a mountain of night life and character moments. And as completely out of sync with the tone of the rest of the game as it is, I can't help but love it. It's like it's all taking place in its own parallel universe where ME3's plot isn't really happening.

It's easy to compartmentalize away, is what I'm saying. Also, I romanced Garrus back in ME2, and frankly every single moment of that romance has been worth it. But especially this one:

I only wish I'd been expecting it, so I could've flooded my screenshots folder or recorded it.

I'm actually a little worried about starting Priority: Cerberus HQ, 'cause I get the feeling it will lock me into the endgame upon completion and I don't want to miss a single moment of this glorious DLC.

... but I should probably stop being off-topic and discuss FFXIV instead. Yeah, the reinforcement of the player's Chosen One status really rubbed me the wrong way, too. I had to stop and wonder something about that.

If Azem were to learn of Venat's ambitions for their soul, how would they feel? Would they gladly lie down and die so that one day they would reincarnate into Venat's "Light of the Future"? Or would it destroy them inside, knowing their whole life is nothing more than a means to an end for their own mentor?

I kind of wanted to explore that with Ashes, but I can't really find the room for it to have Atlas discuss it.

[Bismar]

Yeah, the story was bad. I recently beat endwalker, and was left with nothing but dissapointment and confusion, many reasons why were allready listed in this thread. I then made a post about it on reddit and discord, and you can imagine how people reacted. saying they threw a tandrum does not make it justice, and they even deleted my post on reddit. what a joke

[Lauront]

... but I should probably stop being off-topic and discuss FFXIV instead. Yeah, the reinforcement of the player's Chosen One status really rubbed me the wrong way, too. I had to stop and wonder something about that.

If Azem were to learn of Venat's ambitions for their soul, how would they feel? Would they gladly lie down and die so that one day they would reincarnate into Venat's "Light of the Future"? Or would it destroy them inside, knowing their whole life is nothing more than a means to an end for their own mentor?

If it's the former/bolded, that will be my last straw.

[Lelila38]

If it's the former/bolded, that will be my last straw.

I hope this won't ever be answered. I feel the less we know about Azem, the better. The disconnect with my pc is already strong enough, I don't need my Azem hc be destroyed further.

[Rulakir]

Azem being in any way involved in or supportive of the sundering is an automatic deal breaker for me as well.

they even deleted my post on reddit

Was yours the 2-parter?

[Theodric]

I hope this won't ever be answered. I feel the less we know about Azem, the better. The disconnect with my pc is already strong enough, I don't need my Azem hc be destroyed further.

Yeah. Having the player character be complicit in the extinction of their own species would be a pretty bizarre direction to take.

[Nilroreo]

Yeah. Having the player character be complicit in the extinction of their own species would be a pretty bizarre direction to take.

Unfortunately, Azem is already somewhat of an incoherent enigma despite their limited presence in the narrative. They defected from the convocation and Ignored Venat's invitation, choosing instead to walk some indeterminate path. Thanks to Panda raid however, we now have to accept that Azem might've had some degree of precognition to allow for Themis to know of our eventual arrival. It might be way too early to tell where they're going with this at the moment, but assuming were meant to take this literally and this isn't a set up for a future gag, it could suggest Azem is already aware of their inevitable fate, which has... unfortunate implications.

[YukikoKurosawa]

So.....what WAS the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?