State of the Game prior to Liveletter

[Renathras]

What are you talking about? They're going to remove flight or flight, so that PLD advance rotation will be easier and smoother. Because that's the player feedback on the forums. At least the tank player base on the forums are now a bit self aware about the changes they want, as they are now aware that the devs do listen to their feedback. I don't know if the other roles are self-aware yet.

TLDR: Half the jobs changes that the player base is upset about comes as a result of players suggestions.

Just half?

I'd argue MOST of the Job changes (and game changes in general) are due to players asking for things, that later players then complained about. For years I've seen people complain WAR's AOE was cone shaped. As soon as it was finally changed to a circle, the complaints have been endless that it's not unique anymore. While Cleric Stance existed, people complained endlessly about it, how people wouldn't use it, how people used it and got the party killed, etc etc. So it was changed into a mere damage boosting CD. Then everyone complained (people that loved and hated Cleric Stance before that) that it was boring and pointless and they might as well just bake the boost into the base healer potencies. So then they did that, and people have complained ever sense that Cleric Stance was removed.

People complained Relics were too grindy, then people complained that ShB's Relic starting step wasn't too grindy enough, THEN turned around and complained that it was too grindy in the mid-to-later steps that required a lot of grinding, resulting in it being nerfed, at which point people promptly complained about the nerf and how it was too braindead easy.

Now, we'd be fools to think these are the same people (someone wishing WAR had two circles instead of a cone and then a circle are PROBABLY not the same people complaining about the cone removal), but the fact remains that changes are made due to the community saying things, that then result in a different part of the community being upset. Or, in some cases, EVERYONE being upset. There's literally no winning with some people, so the goal is just how do they piss off the fewest people and keep even the upset people GENERALLY interested/somewhat happy.

He is referring to the Steam figures - which Lucky Bancho himself refers to in both this most recent survey and the previous one.

The problem is the Steam figures were pointed out as potentially not representing the larger game trend - something no one contested (instead just insisting they were valid and that no one should question them) - and that the overall Lucky Bancho numbers indicate EW has had the greatest growth of any expansion in FFXIV's history and that the post-expansion bump drop is on par with past expansions on a percent basis.

[Lauront]

Yes, you tried that argument last time here and were given the following responses:

WoW: Has no Steam tie-in. Has never had a Steam tie-in. Has its own launcher.

XIV: Has a Steam tie-in since 2014, roughly half a year after ARR's release.


So why would WoW players, who've never had any Steam integration, flock to Steam, while all other players of XIV (which has had Steam integration since the game's second quarter) would predominantly avoid it? And why, even, would players be more critical of XIV just because they'd played another MMO prior?

What even is the basis for this "probably"?

ARR released on August 27, 2013. It is now June 27, 2022, exactly 106 months later.
ARR released on Steam on February 14, 2014, less than 6 months after ARR's release.


For over 100 of the 106 months that XIV has been out (>94% of its lifespan thus far), XIV has been on Steam.

People would have had to have played in the first 5.5 months of the game's ever being released for Steam not to be an option. Not "5-9" years, but literally 8.3+ out of the game's total of 8.8 years' lifetime.

Meanwhile, for 0 of 213 months that WoW has been out, WoW has been on Steam.

So what is it about Steam-launcher users (or anyone who joined in the latter >94% of XIV's lifespan) that makes you think they are disproportionately more likely to be WoW players? (Let alone that anyone who touched WoW must have a more negative view of the game that would make their perceptions of XIV invalid and misrepresentative? Or that PC players would be significantly less appeasable than console players?)

My apologies then for assuming some relevance between your latest claim (it wasn't always on Steam) and the one before (that XIV's Steam users are disproportionately WoW refugees, despite WoW never using Steam -- never mind that you have yet to say why those coming from that one particular MMO, as compared to any other, would have such distinct preferences that they would corrupt any sample that includes them).

The only way for those slim 5.5 months, under 6% of XIV's lifespan, to have collected misrepresentative players on the basis that "XIV wasn't always/yet on Steam" is for majority of XIV players to have started playing within the first 5.5 months of the game's lifespan. That is, by all estimates, not the case. Nor is there anything mutually exclusive about having played ARR since its release and having played another MMO prior, WoW included.

Your "potentially" is just that - a potentially - and the reason you tried to give for it being skewed doesn't quite stack up. Again, if the very author of that survey is happy to use the Steam figures as a proxy for the live sub figures (because no other exists save for SE's own internal metrics), and has alluded to their own concerns about player retention (by the way, the LB figures don't really make the case for stellar retention if you look at them at a granular level, where he analyses the changes by type of character, e.g. new, continuing, returning etc.), I'm curious what this specific bias in the Steam figures is that makes them unsuitable as a sample?

[Derio]

My thing is. They just released these new glams on the mogstation. How long exactly did they work on these? Because Wrothgar has been in the game for some time now. And even male Viera now has been 6+ months. So from a development standpoint it should have been fixed for those races?

I dont expect combat balance changes until 6.21 due to the ones in 6.2 being soft adjustments.

6.2 story has to be good after that lackluster 6.1

Just so many things need to happen and I feel like the playerbase is going to be highly disappointed in what we see from 6.2

[Jeeqbit]

Extensive adjustments to Dragoon have been postponed. Looks like there are plans for it like with Samurai.

He is referring to the Steam figures - which Lucky Bancho himself refers to in both this most recent survey and the previous one.

A lot of people recommend against Steam now and others have moved away from it because of the changes.

[Lauront]

Extensive adjustments to Dragoon have been postponed. Looks like there are plans for it like with Samurai.

A lot of people recommend against Steam now and others have moved away from it because of the changes.

The former will impact new sales, but we're discussing retention - as to the latter, are you saying they've dropped the Steam version to buy the same game i.e. EW, to play outside it? Do we have anything but anecdote confirming this? Asking out of genuine curiosity here.

[Nizzi]

Healers didn't lose a lot of their abilities, they just lost 1 or 2 each.

For Scholar alone, not including Role Actions:
Miasma, Bane, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Sustain, Rouse, Fey Covenant, Silent Dusk, Fey Caress, Fey Wind, and Quickened Aetherflow (trait). Energy Drain was restored in 5.05.

Yeah, just 1 or 2 each. What's accomplished in being disingenuous like this? It doesn't change what the developers removed.

[CrimsonGunner]

For Scholar alone, not including Role Actions:
Miasma, Bane, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Sustain, Rouse, Fey Covenant, Silent Dusk, Fey Caress, Fey Wind, and Quickened Aetherflow (trait). Energy Drain was restored in 5.05.

Yeah, just 1 or 2 each. What's accomplished in being disingenuous like this? It doesn't change what the developers removed.

dont forget most of the action roles were initially taken from whm as i remember and also whm lost adds to quite a bit if u count every expansion they removed his skills or rebranded them and gave them to all.

[Kazhar]

Extensive adjustments to Dragoon have been postponed. Looks like there are plans for it like with Samurai.

A lot of people recommend against Steam now and others have moved away from it because of the changes.

AFAIK you can't move away from the Steam version, even by rebuying the game. You'd have to drop your account entirely and make another one.

I doubt a significant amount of players did that.

[Lauront]

AFAIK you can't move away from the Steam version, even by rebuying the game. You'd have to drop your account entirely and make another one.

I doubt a significant amount of players did that.

Didn't even realise the integration went that far... but it looks like you're right and that it's its own licence entirely. I guess it would have to for this setup to work this way. There doesn't seem to be any scope to have it changed by request, either. So yep, I too can't see people just dropping it in droves.

[Nizzi]

dont forget most of the action roles were initially taken from whm as i remember and also whm lost adds to quite a bit if u count every expansion they removed his skills or rebranded them and gave them to all.

Congratulations for White Mage in Endwalker - the first expansion where it did not have something in its kit taken and given to the other healers!