Do we really need two healers per alliance in 24 mans?

[Liam_Harper]

DNC is an example of a simple job imo. Fairly straightforward rotation that's easy to pick up, but good utility, room to master it and relatively engaging. Tanks too, there's nothing complicated in their toolkit but they have a decent mix of dps, mitigation and things to watch for.

WHM is an example of a joke. 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and Lilies is straight up insulting.

[ThorneDynasty]

I don’t think any job should stay “simple”. You have the entire lvl phase to evolve every job too the point it has a decent skill ceiling. Why do people want that some jobs are “simple and easy” to play. People have over 80 lvls too learn a job and it’s tools

Because it will be a cold day in hell when SE will compromise even that much. The absolute best we can hope is that at least not every single healer will play in the same identical braindead manner, sorry to say.

[Mortex]

Because it will be a cold day in hell when SE will compromise even that much. The absolute best we can hope is that at least not every single healer will play in the same identical braindead manner, sorry to say.

Yeah Job Design wise I dear too say the team has lost the Touch for good and clever design in exchange for simple and easy solutions. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs, they did the same with wow not so Long ago. And yeah we know how this ended. Atleast ff 14 has a good story so the barebones job design isn’t as glaring as wow…… at the start.

[Mapleine]

I honestly don't quite get why they even make new jobs anymore. I used to think it was to pave the way for more content but uh...

You think back to Hevensward and AST and how original it was and how it's quests all tied into the unique aspects of the job.

Now we have Green Scholar and Blue Scholar + QoL patch, which took years to mastermind. Why even spend all the money on animations? Just palette swap and be honest, at least then people can color coordinate.

Hey! Then you could sell new "jobs" too! Golden Scholar! Seafoam Scholar! You could pay for so many Witcher May Crys with this...

[SenzorialBoundries]

I honestly don't quite get why they even make new jobs anymore. I used to think it was to pave the way for more content but uh...

You think back to Hevensward and AST and how original it was and how it's quests all tied into the unique aspects of the job.

Now we have Green Scholar and Blue Scholar + QoL patch, which took years to mastermind. Why even spend all the money on animations? Just palette swap and be honest, at least then people can color coordinate.

Hey! Then you could sell new "jobs" too! Golden Scholar! Seafoam Scholar! You could pay for so many Witcher May Crys with this...

You can think of the Jobs as different skins because thats what they are 2 min brust windows, 20% 30% invul etc. BLM is the only class that managed to maintain some semblence of individuality. Look at sage it has like what? 3 unique skills of its own rest are just copy pasta scholar abilities with different names.

[LeonKeyh]

I don’t think any job should stay “simple”. You have the entire lvl phase to evolve every job too the point it has a decent skill ceiling. Why do people want that some jobs are “simple and easy” to play. People have over 80 lvls too learn a job and it’s tools

That's all well and good, but a majority of the players in FFXIV have shown the inability to learn jobs during the entire leveling phase.

It's fine to keep some jobs "simple" for people who want to turn off their brain and play or for those people who don't know how to read tool tips.

By "simple" I don't mean "Summoner" I mean jobs like Dancer, Machinist, and Red Mage.

[Rilifane]

That's all well and good, but a majority of the players in FFXIV have shown the inability to learn jobs during the entire leveling phase.

It's fine to keep some jobs "simple" for people who want to turn off their brain and play or for those people who don't know how to read tool tips.

By "simple" I don't mean "Summoner" I mean jobs like Dancer, Machinist, and Red Mage.

My issue with "simple" is that SE tends to do that by making a job simple at all gameplay levels, eliminating the skill gap.

A job can be simple for performing decently well and above that you gradually have to work for it more and more.
BLMs incorporate Transpose lines for a dps gain as small as below 1%. SCHs optimized around Dissipation for a flat 30 potency gain every 3min after the change in ShB. Crit and DH result in far more dps variance than both of these examples but people who are into it do it.
A full rotation of 5 buttons with 2 dots with different durations, 2 GCDs with different cooldowns and one filler spam could be a 10% dps gain or less over straight Glare spam and people would go for it while it would make almost no difference for people that don't want to dps right now. But SE's way of handling it is making it simple by forcing the same Glare spam on everyone, leaving no option for one part of the playerbase while fully catering to the other instead of finding a middle ground that won't punish learning players too much nor draw too much attention on someone deliberately using the simplified rotation while giving the option to contribute more in a more complex way for the people that want to.
Just lobotomize everyone so one camp doesn't feel bad - and there is absolutely no excuse for that.

[Desna]

So I ran Aglaia tonight as sage. Throughout the raid I would be preparing to heal the party and my cohealer, an Astro in a full crafted set (I say this so nobody thinks they were in full BiS or anything) would instantly get everyone back to full HP. Aside from a few raises and a couple uses of ixochole/pneuma, I didn’t have to heal anyone at all. This makes me genuinely wonder, do we actually need two healers per alliance in alliance raids? I did it as sage on release day and I recall it being pretty easy to heal even when nobody knew any mechanics. Thoughts?

This is an issue. Marginalizing the healer class so players start thinking a whole class of jobs really...isn't needed. No upper level group content should be able to be cleared without a healer unless the devs are...marginalizing healing too much, giving tanks and dps too many major damage management abilities. A good dps and a good tank should keep how they approach solo content well planned and play intelligently or...they die for biting off more than they can chew, it's how you develop real skill and strategy in your approaches versus blindly charging through content without worries. When groups start clearing things without healers and people start thinking healers should function more as a dps that also heals? Something in the design has gone wrong.

[Saraphin]

So I ran Aglaia tonight as sage. Throughout the raid I would be preparing to heal the party and my cohealer, an Astro in a full crafted set (I say this so nobody thinks they were in full BiS or anything) would instantly get everyone back to full HP. Aside from a few raises and a couple uses of ixochole/pneuma, I didn’t have to heal anyone at all. This makes me genuinely wonder, do we actually need two healers per alliance in alliance raids? I did it as sage on release day and I recall it being pretty easy to heal even when nobody knew any mechanics. Thoughts?

i was solo healing it day one on WHM...not because my co-healer was DPSing, but because they kept getting killed. having two healers at least makes it so there's a second raise possible....because there aren't many classes that get raises and you can't promise that you'll get any other than the promised 2 of Healer Slots.

Unless they want to start mandating that each party has to have a RDM/SMN (a coding nightmare, i'm sure) which will make queue times longer...which will upset people...you see where that goes.

[Leonerdo]

This is kinda funny to me, because we've seen this taken to the extreme already in Delebrum Reginae speedruns. Healers weren't needed, and the gap between good and bad players was massive (mostly because of essences), so anybody worth their salt just went to PF for a faster run.

We could do that with Alliance raids too, but it wouldn't be worth it. The time saved in run and the extra fun for the healers wouldn't be worth all the time spent sitting in PF.

If SE is determined to keep healing requirements low, then I wish they would implement a way to queue in DF as a solo-healer, if you've already beat the raid/trial a number of times. Maybe give that healer one free revive in case they mess up (a la Hydaelen with trusts).

That's probably too much work/risk though. Duo healers might get flamed for being suboptimal, because "it's easy to solo heal this fight, I do it all the time." Like the single-pulling tanks debacle. I doubt SE wants any more opportunities for elitists to complain about newbies.