Will they give back kaiten to the sam?

[Ruminous]

They could bring it back, but they'll only have to take it out again as more skills get added over the years. Button bloat is a real thing.

Dragoon has way more button bloat than samurai does. A lot more unique buttons they need to press. Guess we'll see how badly they F it up on the next live letter.

Anyway, kaiten shouldn't have been pulled from this version of samurai, because of its interaction with the rest of the kit. Class needs to be broken down and rebuilt or kaiten needs to be returned. That's all that needs to happen. But to say kaiten was "button bloat" is a very bad argument when the current version of samurai (without kaiten) really has no need for a kenki meter at all now. You could disable it in your hud and play without that clutter on your screen because tracking the number is pointless with no reason to save kenki otherwise. See shinten light up? Hit it! Exciting.

[Deveryn]

Dragoon has way more button bloat than samurai does. A lot more unique buttons they need to press. Guess we'll see how badly they F it up on the next live letter.

Anyway, kaiten shouldn't have been pulled from this version of samurai, because of its interaction with the rest of the kit. Class needs to be broken down and rebuilt or kaiten needs to be returned. That's all that needs to happen. But to say kaiten was "button bloat" is a very bad argument when the current version of samurai (without kaiten) really has no need for a kenki meter at all now. You could disable it in your hud and play without that clutter on your screen because tracking the number is pointless with no reason to save kenki otherwise. See shinten light up? Hit it! Exciting.

Dragoon has a lot to cycle through, but there's nothing quite so useless and busy as Kaiten. RIP forever.

[AsiTsurugi]

... but there's nothing quite so useless and busy as Kaiten....

Well, you're here, so.

[Ruminous]

Dragoon has a lot to cycle through, but there's nothing quite so useless and busy as Kaiten. RIP forever.

Kaiten has a use, which you pointedly ignored, in that it controlled how kenki was spent to avoid spamming the kenki dump button. You take it out, you have nothing but shinten spam. You take shinten out and leave kaiten in, you have a lot of kaiten spam. Kaiten had very specific timeframes on when you use it so spamming it was a bad option because the optimal gains came from using it on two specific iaijutsus. I'm not seeing how kaiten is "useless and busy".

Dragoon has redundant buttons you can get rid of and smooth out its play. Trust me, there are a couple on their ability list you can chop out and it wont change the flow of dragoon. I'll leave you to figure out which they are. But you're arguing from the standpoint that many have argued with in that "kaiten was useless and busy!" without thinking about HOW the ability was used. Just that you hit a button before another button. The damage was just a dopamine rush. But at this point, what I said before still stands. Either kaiten needs to be returned to samurais or they need to fundamentally change how things in the class work because right now, there's very little you can really do to get better at it if you've got strong fundamentals. And, jobs need to have some degree of complexity and depth or otherwise they lose their luster and people will eventually get bored.

As a sidenote, I'm happy to have discussions about kaiten and why it's good or bad. But please bring points that can't be broken down in five seconds. I honestly would support not getting kaiten back IF samurai was broken down and changed into something more than just someone trying to copy the monk dev's paper and getting coffee stains all over it. Because at this point, considering how many excuses that were used to justify kaiten's removal, they really didn't put a whole lot of thought in to it.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Because at this point, considering how many excuses that were used to justify kaiten's removal, they really didn't put a whole lot of thought in to it.

Bear in mind they had to give SAM band-aid buffs in 6.11 shows it was a rushed change. Can't have a meme rotation in Yukikaze > Hagakure > Shinten spam doing just as much if not more than what the devs projected with the 6.1 changes. This would prove they were wrong and can't have that; especially considering all the white-knights coming out to defend them.

[Ruminous]

Bear in mind they had to give SAM band-aid buffs in 6.11 shows it was a rushed change. Can't have a meme rotation in Yukikaze > Hagakure > Shinten spam doing just as much if not more than what the devs projected with the 6.1 changes. This would prove they were wrong and can't have that; especially considering all the white-knights coming out to defend them.

Yeah, that I do remember. Problem is announcing they were buffing pieces of the rotation sort of showed they were wrong to begin with. Ah, is what it is.

[Quor]

Bear in mind they had to give SAM band-aid buffs in 6.11 shows it was a rushed change. Can't have a meme rotation in Yukikaze > Hagakure > Shinten spam doing just as much if not more than what the devs projected with the 6.1 changes. This would prove they were wrong and can't have that; especially considering all the white-knights coming out to defend them.

Doubly so since the change wasn't intended to buff low potencies so much as it was to stop a meme rotation where Yuki spam outdide using Midare. Again, showing that it was not a change that was well though out.

[CelestiCer]

Doubly so since the change wasn't intended to buff low potencies so much as it was to stop a meme rotation where Yuki spam outdide using Midare. Again, showing that it was not a change that was well though out.

Exactly.

Our big hits are changed to feel empty, with our rotation feeling hollow. The changes from 6.1 I try to fish for a justification and nothing to be found. It felt impulsively implemented, making it come off as lazy.

So I guess I can ask the following

• Will they give Kaiten back? My expectation " No ".
• Do I sense plenty wanting it back? " Yes ".
• What if Kaiten returns and applies Auto-Crit buff? " Perhaps ".
• And if Kaiten comes back in that way, will be enough? For me? " No ".

To me nothing was more satisfying then 6.08 Samurai. And of course that can differ in opinion. But, compared to 6.1? yes I find 6.08 flawless. We have over 120 threads now all revolving pleading/demanding Kaiten to come back or 6.1 changes being horrible or a revert of the changes to a prior state i.e 6.08 Samurai, 7+ youtube video's of different content creators, not to mention the JP forums that was practically on fire...

I doubt the Dev's are oblivious of the negative feedback. I just find these changes being done paired with silence to our requested feedback... silence 3 months while being able to address everything else? just utterly insulting.

[CelestiCer]

Dragoon has a lot to cycle through, but there's nothing quite so useless and busy as Kaiten. RIP forever.

Oh goodie! Another " Hey I don't main/play Samurai, but here's my vomit " takes. Boy oh Boy

Guessing a player that never sets foot into difficult content with either Samurai or any job in general, while Omni-crafting from the Limsa square. Giving trollopinions about Jobs they never mastered nor content they never really delved into. Got Samurai to 90 though, never play it outside of roulette and dying at Dead Ends twice every Friday thinking they can have an expert opinion.

And the main reasoning to even Forum posts unintelligible takes, is cause seeing players riled up is more entertaining then their crafting rotation they can't even memorize without some 3rd party website. Then again it's like the what 14th? Dumb poster? Aside from other players that main other jobs that are salty that they aren't top DPS for some reason, they all start to look alike.

It's just a " Guess " though. I don't think I am far off.

[Deveryn]

Oh goodie! Another " Hey I don't main/play Samurai, but here's my vomit " takes. Boy oh Boy

Guessing a player that never sets foot into difficult content with either Samurai or any job in general, while Omni-crafting from the Limsa square. Giving trollopinions about Jobs they never mastered nor content they never really delved into. Got Samurai to 90 though, never play it outside of roulette and dying at Dead Ends twice every Friday thinking they can have an expert opinion.

And the main reasoning to even Forum posts unintelligible takes, is cause seeing players riled up is more entertaining then their crafting rotation they can't even memorize without some 3rd party website. Then again it's like the what 14th? Dumb poster? Aside from other players that main other jobs that are salty that they aren't top DPS for some reason, they all start to look alike.

It's just a " Guess " though. I don't think I am far off.

You're entitled to your opinion, but when you make these claims without knowing me and what I've done in game, you just make yourself look foolish. Carry on though. This is surely what will bring back your little button.

Sad doesn't begin to describe the sight of these attacks and the focus of the thread changing to me and my opinion. It just goes to show you have no real argument for bringing this skill back.