What if Intervention/HoC/TBN got the Nascent Flash/Glint treatment?

[RyuDragnier]

What does Aurora have to do with a comparison of on-demands?

Moreover, if we were to look at self-healing in total, PLD does 5879 free healing potency per minute via Holy Shelltron and Requiescat, up from GNB's 3360 via HoC and Aurora, while even in ST WAR can put out 7960 healing+shielding atop a further 13.3% of its HP per average minute. We don't talk about DRK.

So DRK should be getting a chunk of WAR's self-healing to bring it in line, gotcha.

[Shurrikhan]

So DRK should be getting a chunk of WAR's self-healing to bring it in line, gotcha.

...What's a DRK?

[fulminating]

They could just make abysmal drain a dark arts version of unmend and remove the cooldown from it. They could even have it as a flat potency heal/target if they really want, although I think changing nascent to that was a bad move.

[DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise]

I don’t really know wtf is going on any more, but the suggestion wouldn’t increase the self-healing, nor the durability of the tank.

If you use TBN on an ally, and it shields the DRK, then the result for the drk is no different than if it tbn’d itself.
If you spend 50 oath of your ally instead of on yourself, your ally gains 1000pot hot, you gain 1000pot hot, ally gains additional mit.
If you use HoC on ally instead of yourself, then your ally gets an excog, you get an excog, and your ally gains additional mit.

It’s the same idea as nascent flash as compared to bloodwhetting.
Nascent flash doesn’t make a warrior tankier or increase its self healing.
Nascent flash just keeps the more generally useful self-heal component of bloodwhetting.

Thus, it’s not infringing upon warriors self-healing turf.
And it’s not like having the best ogcd support heal in the game is supposed to be warrior’s identity anyways, if anything that would rightfully belong to pld.

But I think the nascent flash treatment would be good for all tank’s 25s/tbn

Just to reiterate, if it would be a problem for gnb/drk/pld then you’d basically be saying that it’s a problem on warrior.
I’m not saying that. I think it’s great. Warriors certainly don’t need it. Warrior already dominates their meta. But would I ever want it changed? Hell no! I love it, I love how powerful and useful warrior is in so many different situation.

But the nascent flash effect I think all tanks should be able to enjoy that lessened sacrifice.

Also, to say that it isn’t necessary. Lots of things aren’t necessary, and water is wet. That’s not a reason, things don’t have to be necessary, don’t be boring~

[Argyle_Darkheart]

If you don't know what's going on, then maybe you should stop making job adjustment suggestions.

[dspguy]

I don't really see the need to balance Bloodwhetting/Nascent Glint. All tank jobs have an ability that does something similar (mitigation on self or someone else - regen/heal/damage shield). The key difference with WAR is that there are corner cases where WAR could maintain DPS while keeping alive another party member if the healer was dead. PLD can do that... at great cost to MP and lowering their DPS. GNB can't do it all that well, and DRK simply only has a damage shield.

I wouldn't say it is gamebreaking.

[pikalovr]

snip

the issue is that everyones 25s targettable mit/shield/whatever you wanna call it basically has no use being put on anyone besides maybe co-tank and very rarely at that. if we had more reason to actually pop it on others and more frequently, you could have a solid point here since it's needed and WAR does get an unfair advantage (it not only still buffing himself but at no cost as well). especially since you can copy the mechanic but not necessarily how it works. as you said basically mimicking the effect to both parties the ally and yourself.

but rn the issue is that if you do that with out the need to even use it as it is now it's kind of a pointless change in the grand scheme of things. especially for those that have costs tied to them (part of the reason people point out it made no sense for WAR to basically have his buffed even further and also apply to himself for applying to others for no cost aside CD). not to mention taking into account thing like TBNs proc effect if the DRK times it well he can pop his shield before say a raidwide use edge of shadow then raidwide pops his allies shield granting a second free edge proc. now thats not to say it's extremely unlikely but it is a valid point to take into account. or the fact DRK did get essentially a useable non-cost targetable mit with oblation with 2 charges so if you really needed to oblation that one healer in the middle of LB3 stance or what have you you still have one for yourself for the TB coming up in 5 seconds

[Shurrikhan]

the issue is that everyones 25s targettable mit/shield/whatever you wanna call it basically has no use being put on anyone besides maybe co-tank and very rarely at that.

Especially in WAR's case (as Nascent's mitigation is wholly minimal, thus really just granting spot-healing), that really just comes down mostly to the strength of AoE heals. After all, a 400p AoE heal is, in effect, 3200 potency of healing in any serious content (as such is limited entirely to full-party play in relatively small spaces). And yet they're only restricted by MP, which, clownfestas aside, is basically unlimited.

If AoE heals' potency decayed after/when hitting healing than 4 allies total --or were smart-heals, but of lower maximum effective potency-- there'd be a far greater place for spot-heals, spot-mitigation, and personal defensives on non-tanks. Bloodbath, Second Wind, Shadeshift, Riddle of Earth, etc. could actually feel useful/pivotal, instead of merely causing overheal on oneself.

[pikalovr]

Especially in WAR's case (as Nascent's mitigation is wholly minimal, thus really just granting spot-healing), that really just comes down mostly to the strength of AoE heals. After all, a 400p AoE heal is, in effect, 3200 potency of healing in any serious content (as such is limited entirely to full-party play in relatively small spaces). And yet they're only restricted by MP, which, clownfestas aside, is basically unlimited.

If AoE heals' potency decayed after/when hitting healing than 4 allies total --or were smart-heals, but of lower maximum effective potency-- there'd be a far greater place for spot-heals, spot-mitigation, and personal defensives on non-tanks. Bloodbath, Second Wind, Shadeshift, Riddle of Earth, etc. could actually feel useful/pivotal, instead of merely causing overheal on oneself.

don't even need that tbh we literally have no mechanics that target single people aside from tanks anymore we'd be lucky to see one in a blue moon that affects a random person (whether or not the actual targeting is based on 1-2 in aggro list) or not. if we had more mechanics like that there'd be no reason for healers to waste their GCDs or even single target oGCDs on them. if for example WAR could just pop their targettable self heal on them letting the one DPS top off and the tank self heal while the healer just hits glare again.

it's not just damage and healing values, it's fight designs themselves as well. i would love to have a boss or mobs randomly target a DPS(es) and the party has to work together to make sure they don't die. or make it similar to mister snek bois TB where if you don't mitigate enough or invuln, the damage the character took is spread to he party except on a DPS where it'd require tanks and healer targetted mits to make a difference (you'd throw in hard hitting AOE raidwides before and after to prevent people just saving party wide mits)

[Shurrikhan]

it's not just damage and healing values, it's fight designs themselves as well.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the excessive power of AoE heals in full-party content were an exhaustive reason for their being almost no place for spot-healing/mitigation on non-tanks, only that it certainly contributes.

So long as a personal defensive/self-heal (from a non-tank) isn't worth enough relative to an AoE heal --or single-target heals relative to AoEs-- that it can trim an AoE heal cast (causing a single-target heal to be used on the reduced number of targets one would need to heal), AoE heals will simply plow over those parts of our kits the vast majority of the time, making waste of most personal defensives/heals, let alone external spot-healing or the like.

Now, ofc, external mitigation will specifically require random-target damage events anyways, agreed.