6.2 Hrothgar Update

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

In a roundabout way, you kinda do on this subject. You sometimes start off appearing to defend them, only to do a complete 180 by the end. Intentional or not, it is how I perceive some of your posts in regard to this, so I can see how others might get that impression too. I've got nothing against you though either way. Just calling it as I see it.

This is the problem Im noticing with how people read my posts.
Im very clear that Im not defending them and say the opposite of Defending, but it seems like there is ONE part of my post that seems to get looked at more then everything else.
I said the Dev time on Hrothgar is Hilariously slow...I expressed how its questionable that they wouldnt make these unique hairs they mentioned instead of using old hairs. I said It would be nice if they could get more headgear working already, and make Store Glamour Headgear wearable. And I hope they do plan future gear to include the Hrothgar.
Something else they could/Should do is make some Lv1 Glamour gear for the Hrothgar......
I sit here and name my grievance and agree with people...So I am quite confused how any of that is showing Support and Defending the company or saying the nonsense that is pinned on me.

Oh..I see the problem, ""-I refuse to follow that idea personally. Neglect and Delusion "" or ""The Hrothgar are not being ignored and they are not going to be removed or deleted...thats just silly."" so right there is sounds like a defense for them....just because I disagree on that thought process, now everything else I said doesn't matter. Even though I agree about the issues, it doesnt matter if I show support, because I dont agree on one part.

Square screwed up with what we got. If we want something done right in the future, then they can't half-ass it the way they've been so far.

I...AGREE...I...UNDERSTAND this point as well.
Not once have I ever said what we got is A-Ok or argued against this. -sigh-
Thank You, I accept the apology and thank you for the kind words, but please Im not sure how to make my point or give my thoughts on this subject without somehow sounding like Im saying "The company can do not wrong" (even though I never said that) but after...how many interactions we had, understand Im on your side, and everyones side in seeing Improvements. Not once have I excused the current state of the Hrothgar. And I agree they NEED to do better.

Whenever I make another post, I want that to be understood from the get-go.

[Midareyukki]

Ok I wont....not like I did in the 1st place.
Nowhere in my post did I say any of that, or even try to make that argument. I bloody wish I could make myself more clear without giving the wrong impression, because these misreadings are quite annoying.

.w. that one post wasn't meant toward you, Zanarkand... It's me picking up on XiRon's answer to Mosha. As well as a general warning for everyone else.

Because Mosha implied that the devs were doing a shoddy job with Hrothgar because they didn't have enough budget and they didn't want to make new races after Au Ra. And it's just like... a) that's not really an excuse because everything is planned out months, if not years in advance. And b) I mean, at the end of the day, they ended up agreeing to making two more races. At the same time. They should have had some foresight and responsability while doing it.

Speaking of Mosha...

They said they DIDN'T want to add another race
They said those races would have LIMITATIONS
YOU CHOOSE to play that RACE
Now you're CRYING on the forums about it.

Horthgar was a mistake tbh, if you want my opinion.

No one wanted it, but thanks for giving your trashy misinformed opinion anyway.

We chose to play a race that had limitations, yes, but were told that they'd get improved upon over time. We're crying because not only was Square misleading, the stuff we are getting is irresponsibly shoddy.

It doesn't matter if that's what they wanted from the start or not. You start something, you own up to it to the end. You may have said once you didn't want to do it, but now that you have, how about at least putting in some actual effort and make sure you're not left with something this shoddy? Otherwise you just look petty in front of your own playerbase who did nothing wrong other than enjoy the content you made. If fans come together and say "Cool that you wanted this to be limited, but we love it so much, we want it to be complete", your answer isn't "Shut up, take what you have, and also a crap no one asked for that barely works". Not if you want your game to grow.

Stop blaming the fanbase. If you and anyone else still insists on this ridiculous nonsense answer that "we knew what we were getting to", then you're not worth listening to. Because guess what: 1.0 was also very much a trash heap, and fans cried out for Square to either fix it or admit that the game wasn't good. Because a lot of features in the game only exist because fans demanded it.

These races have support and they have feedback. Unlike useless stuff in the game that no one ever uses.

Just accept that they're here and that the devs WANT them to be here, otherwise they wouldn't have made them. No one is whining but you. We're expressing our disappointment and outrage, and we even have a thread to give feedback to Square Enix. The only ones crying are the ones who still haven't accepted reality and want to bother people hoping for a better game.

I don't care about their stupid past. I care about the present and the future. And right now, they made the decision to make these races, so they need to acknowledge the consequences of their decisions and acknowledge that this isn't just a one-sided deal. They can't throw things into the wall and expect people to eat it.

But if you're one of those people who would be okay with that, then grab a fork. Clearly you're starving.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

.w. that one post wasn't meant toward you, Zanarkand... It's me picking up on XiRon's answer to Mosha. As well as a general warning for everyone else

My edit wasn't fast enough.
I took that quote out of my last post because I realized late it had nothing to do with me. So IM the one that did a Misreading LoL
I apologize for that.

[Midareyukki]

My edit wasn't fast enough.
I took that quote out of my last post because I realized late it had nothing to do with me. So IM the one that did a Misreading LoL
I apologize for that.

's alright. And don't worry. Even if we're not always on the same page, you do want what's best for Hrothgar in the long run. That shouldn't be discredited.

[Vahlnir]

This is the problem Im noticing with how people read my posts.
Im very clear that Im not defending them and say the opposite of Defending, but it seems like there is ONE part of my post that seems to get looked at more then everything else.
I said the Dev time on Hrothgar is Hilariously slow...I expressed how its questionable that they wouldnt make these unique hairs they mentioned instead of using old hairs. I said It would be nice if they could get more headgear working already, and make Store Glamour Headgear wearable. And I hope they do plan future gear to include the Hrothgar.
Something else they could/Should do is make some Lv1 Glamour gear for the Hrothgar......
I sit here and name my grievance and agree with people...So I am quite confused how any of that is showing Support and Defending the company or saying the nonsense that is pinned on me.

Oh..I see the problem, ""-I refuse to follow that idea personally. Neglect and Delusion "" or ""The Hrothgar are not being ignored and they are not going to be removed or deleted...thats just silly."" so right there is sounds like a defense for them....just because I disagree on that thought process, now everything else I said doesn't matter. Even though I agree about the issues, it doesnt matter if I show support, because I dont agree on one part.

Oh, I know where you stand with Hrothgar. I'm not questioning that at all. You are probably one of very few people in comparison to a lot of the forum goers around here who get what the problems with Hrothgar are, and why a lot of people are upset about it, and that is great. If these misunderstandings are happening a lot, however, I would suggest wording your posts better. After a certain point, the problem isn't all of the people pointing it out. If I'm misunderstanding certain things then that's my bad, but I don't really think that I am.

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

I'm not a Hroth player but even I can see that the development in regards to them is sloppy and definitely does not fit under acceptable standards, especially those new hairstyles and hats they've shown so proudly, it was so bad I honestly thought it was an April fools joke

And then we get these people that's like: "Pls no bulli SE!" Pretty sure every ones tone would drastically shift if Miqot'e were in Hroths shoes. SE is not an indie dev and yet they are acting like they are, adding new "content" that isn't really all that important and putting their time on things that only a few will care about (ala new housing items) when something basic and more important is being left on the "maybe" pile. More People should be up in arms about this.

[Jettinson]

You know it is really bad when all social sites made fun of that particular 2b Hrothgar pic with no ears and really questioning how they managed to do this bad.

Some people might get tired to read the complaints over and over but in reality everyone is tired...

Just give the race love and care

[Akimori]

Horthgar was a mistake tbh, if you want my opinion.

Your opinion being given is like the playerbase asking for hrothgar originally (hint: no one asked for it teehee). So you can take your objectively wrong and quiet frankly trashy opinion to the garbage where it belongs

[aveyond-dreams]

Your opinion being given is like the playerbase asking for hrothgar originally (hint: no one asked for it teehee). So you can take your objectively wrong and quiet frankly trashy opinion to the garbage where it belongs

To be fair, asking a team that was clearly not equipped to create and maintain a beast race of sufficient quality was indeed the wrong thing to do. I cannot ask a McDonald's line cook to suddenly start making gourmet sushi and expect good results. There was a massive failure in reading the room and understanding what the majority of the playerbase wanted to see in future race additions - something wasn't as limited as on-release Viera and Hrothgar.

I suspect that given WoW's trend at the time of releasing one allied race after the other with quite limited customization gave the impression that FFXIV could get away with doing the same thing. Anyone who has spent a significant amount of time mingling with the playerbase and looking at people in game can see why that isn't the case. FFXIV players highly value customization of their characters down to the last detail and chasing after new customization rewards because unlike most mmorpgs, they only play that one character or at most have 1-2 alts instead of 10 like in WoW or Lost Ark.

Instead of fighting with players who for various reasons do not like Hrothgar or take issue with the manner in which they were implemented, focus instead on keeping the conversation focused on getting the updates this race needs because the fact that we are in the year 2022 and we are still having this discussion regarding their limited state is unacceptable.

[Midareyukki]

Honestly, I hope Square actually addresses this in the PLL on July 1st, but I'm keeping my hopes way low for that...

I wish Square did acknowledge the outcry from Hrothgar players. That they acknowledged that the way they've been handling the situation hasn't been healthy either. That they'd set aside snark and, for once, actually addressed Hrothgar players directly and with the seriousness we deserve. And that rather than pinning blame on the playerbase for playing Hrothgar, acknowledge their responsability on the matter and give us a straight answer. Not one that dismisses reality and makes fans accuse them of laziness and ignorance.

That it isn't fair for us to hear "Oh it's too hard" when the Legacy Races are getting their visual lift and the world will have better textures.
That it isn't fair to have a render of the 2B hair look like the world's ugliest April Fool's joke. Someone rendered it, someone printed it, someone put it on Yoshida's file and someone approved every step of this. When the whole community, not even Hrothgar players alone, acknowledge that it looked bad and it gave off the wrong impression, you can't tell me no one at Square Enix also thought the same. And the giggling made it look far worse than it may have been.

And it isn't fair that we still have really stupid people telling Hrothgar and Viera players to shut up because "oh you knew what you were getting into". Not only does it dismiss the gravity of the situation, because it's escalated beyond mere "lack of customization", it also forgets the game's own roots. And if the 1.0 argument convinces very few, then imagine this:
- Hrothgar was announced by the devs. Not that many people actively asked for it, yet it still has a playerbase who enjoys it and is asking for updates and attention. It's become a part of the community. Square doesn't give a damn.
- Diadem was recycled four times now. The first two failed, no one liked playing them. The third one became Eureka, which also had massive problems on launch. And the fourth was shoved into the Firmament because Square can't let an idea go.
Why insist so much on Diadem but not Hrothgar? "Oh costs"? That's BS and you all know it. Even if the problem were costs, these guys plan things well in advance, they should assess their priorities.
And I honestly blame the development team so much for these fans's responses. Because if they had adressed this any sooner, we wouldn't be having to constantly repeat ourselves.

To be fair, asking a team that was clearly not equipped to create and maintain a beast race of sufficient quality was indeed the wrong thing to do.
...
Instead of fighting with players who for various reasons do not like Hrothgar or take issue with the manner in which they were implemented, focus instead on keeping the conversation focused on getting the updates this race needs because the fact that we are in the year 2022 and we are still having this discussion regarding their limited state is unacceptable.

No it's not fair at all.

Because that team specifically wanted this race to be in the game, and then promptly abandoned it.

If we're attacking anyone, then all they need to do is present it to their superiors so that someone allocates the proper resources for it.

Because that McDonald's analogy is a terrible analogy as it is. That isn't the situation at all whatsoever. You're just making up crap to sound smart and think your point got proven, but it did not. This isn't a case of some Karen at McDonald's, this is the playerbase of a given content that has been sitting for 3 years for any update and just got the ugliest trash the development team could have brought forth. Those aren't the same, and if anything, you've just proven you know nothing of the situation.

But guess what, to take your ridiculous analogy and actually make it work: If A VAST MAJORITY of the people asking for a certain type of burger have come out and said "Yo, this burger is awful", and you don't do anything about it, then it's on you.

Because otherwise, we know full well who to go for. It's just that given how the situation has escalated, SOMEONE needs to move their butt.

And it's not by accusing us Hrothgar players that you'll defend the development team any harder. Because you can think all you want about the method, but what Mosha said was nothing but inappropriate.