Healers need an overhaul

[Lilapop]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...? it's not that hard, this is how it used to be back in the old days, considered COMMON SENSE for healers to HEAL and not outdps the actual dps classes.

[Nizzi]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...? it's not that hard, this is how it used to be back in the old days, considered COMMON SENSE for healers to HEAL and not outdps the actual dps classes.

You mean the old days of this game where we had more DPS actions and had to heal more? Wow!

[Lilapop]

You mean the old days of this game where we had more DPS actions and had to heal more? Wow!

my bad for not clarifying, i meant old days of mmos in general

[Nizzi]

my bad for not clarifying, i meant old days of mmos in general

The thing is that this isn't an old MMO, this is an MMO where since the beginning healers had more DPS actions than they do now while also having to heal less than they did in the past. Even if we up the healing requirements moving forward (which is absolutely not going to happen, they've said they do not want to do this and any time Yoshida says "uhh you'll be healing more later on" it's been a lie) all of the content that comes before will still be just as boring as it is now. The game is fundamentally not designed for healers that are healing more than they are DPSing. This is a major part of the problem when you consider our DPS rotation is 1-1-1-1-1 with a DoT refresh every 30s and an occasional damaging oGCD/Phlegma if you're SGE.

Nobody is asking for us to do MORE damage. We are asking to have something more to do that isn't 1-1-1-1 because they are designing everything to require us to contribute by spamming 1-1-1-1. Even in DSR which was solo healed by an Astrologian player recently, the button the player pressed the most was Fall Malefic. They are designing our kits for a game that does not exist. We do not need all of these overbloated, overpowered oGCD heals. It is bad design to have buttons that we are meant to ignore as much as we can. We're not complaining about the DPS numbers. Healers were doing more DPS than tanks were in Shadowbringers, and now they're not. Nobody is complaining about this because nobody cares. We are complaining about the constant Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam that EVERY healer has and not a single one is free from because it is garbage design.

Even if they finally decide to get their heads out of their behinds and somehow walk back their decision of not wanting to increase healing requirements, this does nothing for a vast majority of content in the game. If you are a new player who wants to play a healer, you will be hitting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis over and over in everything. Every solo duty you will be spamming 1-1-1-1. Every time the MSQ or a job quest wants you to kill mobs in the overworld you will be hitting 1-1-1-1. If you want to run the game as a single player experience because they're shifting it away from an MMO with Trust support in all MSQ content, you will be spamming 1-1-1-1 because the bots do not mess up and do not require healing. This is BAD DESIGN. It is not fun and it is insulting that it has gotten to this state, and even more insulting that the developers are happy with it and consider it good.

Imagine doing your Zodiac relic now - just the Atma FATE stage. Back in ARR when this was current content, if you were playing a SCH, if you were downsynced to level 30 in a Single Target Boss FATE so you could try to get an Atma, your DPS kit looked like this -
Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Ruin, Bane and 2 stacks of Aetherflow to use on Energy Drain.
Now what do you have at level 30? Bio II and Ruin. That's it.
What do you have at level 90? Biolysis, Broil IV, 3 stacks of Aetherflow to use on Energy Drain. You had more to do on Scholar at level 30 8 years ago than you do now at level 90 for all solo content that they continue to design and add to this game. Saying "just do a DPS job for that content" is not the answer. They should not be designing an entire role to be unfun, unengaging and boring while shifting this game towards a solo focus. WHM players don't get a free DPS job as they level. AST players don't either, and neither do SGE players. Healers are the only role in this game where the developers continually try to excuse how awful they have become. Tanks and DPS are not like this.

[Zairava]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...? it's not that hard, this is how it used to be back in the old days, considered COMMON SENSE for healers to HEAL and not outdps the actual dps classes.

Oh yes, the classic provide absolutely nothing to the discussion other than this piss poor argument.

There is not enough to heal that makes up for unending dps spam ad nauseam. Most of your time spent as a healer is dealing damage because the receiving damage is abysmally undertuned. Even in ultimate it has been proven repeatedly that most of spells casts is your single target dps spell, even in the recent solo heal clear of DSR Which shouldn't even be possible to begin with, but ya know, just stand there and do nothing I guess. Very fun, engaging gameplay to either just stand there and wait until you can cast a single healing spell or two. Which isn't much worse than 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. Also, Unless your dps are absolute brainlets you should not be doing more dps than them in any circumstances. If you are outdps-ing the literal dps, that's the actual dps's fault, not the healers.

[Lilapop]

Oh yes, the classic provide absolutely nothing to the discussion other than this piss poor argument.

There is not enough to heal that makes up for unending dps spam ad nauseam. Most of your time spent as a healer is dealing damage because the receiving damage is abysmally undertuned. Even in ultimate it has been proven repeatedly that most of spells casts is your single target dps spell, even in the recent solo heal clear of DSR Which shouldn't even be possible to begin with, but ya know, just stand there and do nothing I guess. Very fun, engaging gameplay to either just stand there and wait until you can cast a single healing spell or two. Which isn't much worse than 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. Also, Unless your dps are absolute brainlets you should not be doing more dps than them in any circumstances. If you are outdps-ing the literal dps, that's the actual dps's fault, not the healers.

i don't see how it's a piss poor argument. there's not enough to heal for healers who know what they're doing, we completely agree on that point. as well as healers out-dpsing the actual dps not being the fault of the healers, thats on the dps. but we're operating under the assumption that the average healer knows exactly how to play their class "optimally" (???) and uses their full kit. the average healer usually doesn't, in my experience and likely many others considering i see more often people complaining about poor healers (not healing, not holy-ing, only using cure, not touching regen/medica/etc.) which is more often than not the reality. + when people go for advice on the "proper" way there's usually not a one size fits all cookie cutter template which should exist, it being... use your full kit. that and don't tank aoes. it's that simple, every healer should be told this at a beginning level.

[IDontPetLalas]

i don't see how it's a piss poor argument. there's not enough to heal for healers who know what they're doing, we completely agree on that point. as well as healers out-dpsing the actual dps not being the fault of the healers, thats on the dps. but we're operating under the assumption that the average healer knows exactly how to play their class "optimally" (???) and uses their full kit. the average healer usually doesn't, in my experience and likely many others considering i see more often people complaining about poor healers (not healing, not holy-ing, only using cure, not touching regen/medica/etc.) which is more often than not the reality. + when people go for advice on the "proper" way there's usually not a one size fits all cookie cutter template which should exist, it being... use your full kit. that and don't tank aoes. it's that simple, every healer should be told this at a beginning level.

many players also look for cast times or think that they need to be at 100 % all of the time. Or think that they can ignore mechanics, or that healers can ignore mechanics ( healer privilege does not exist sadly) or think that healing range is infinite. I could go on. Yes I absolutely agree that healers can make mistakes, but sometimes it's on the other people in the party as well.

[Lilapop]

many players also look for cast times or think that they need to be at 100 % all of the time. Or think that they can ignore mechanics, or that healers can ignore mechanics ( healer privilege does not exist sadly) or think that healing range is infinite. I could go on. Yes I absolutely agree that healers can make mistakes, but sometimes it's on the other people in the party as well.

i absolutely agree, worse party members (people ignoring mechanics, dps taking aoes to the face etc.) gives "more" to heal, and that seems to be as close as "more" healers will get. definitely not 100% all the time, for sge i'd wager for the average person 50%+ is good, whm due to heal potency can dip a bit under if they're comfortable and able to ping pong health without a wipe. if a healer is being dumb and ignoring mechanics, well, thats on them.

[Silver-Strider]

healers: "waaaah muh dps"

you are a healer. heal.

if you want a dps, play... a dps...? it's not that hard, this is how it used to be back in the old days, considered COMMON SENSE for healers to HEAL and not outdps the actual dps classes.

Back in the old days, we had less healing oGCDs and STILL had more DPS skills than we do now and it played fine.
SCH had 5 DoTs (not counting Nukes, Energy Drain or Bane), 2 distinct Fairies to micro manage, and at most 10 healing abilities and played fine.
AST had distinct cards and ways to alter their cards to apply to everyone/extend their durations, etc. and played fine
WHM actually had Shields they could apply to everyone and despite having fewer oGCDS than either SCH or AST, still had at least 2 DoTs to manage, and STILL PLAYED FINE.

We didn't have 20+ healing abilities because we didn't NEED them but now we do have those 20 abilities and they're so stupidly powerful that you literally can avoid using half of them and still be fine. FFS, you can go AFK entirely and if the Tank is even semi-decent, you won't be missed because of how little damage there is to heal that they themselves can resolve with their own toolkits. The "Healer should Heal" mentality only works when there's actually something to heal, which has been lacking since HW IMO.

I don't want another unnecessary oGCD heal that I will rarely use, I want some god damn synergy within my kit to keep me entertained.
I don't want to Spam 1 Button endlessly in content, I want something that actually stimulates my mind.
I don't WANT to play a DPS role, I want the Healers that I fell in love with back.

[Raikai]

Back in the old days, we had less healing oGCDs and STILL had more DPS skills than we do now and it played fine.
SCH had 5 DoTs (not counting Nukes, Energy Drain or Bane), 2 distinct Fairies to micro manage, and at most 10 healing abilities and played fine.
AST had distinct cards and ways to alter their cards to apply to everyone/extend their durations, etc. and played fine
WHM actually had Shields they could apply to everyone and despite having fewer oGCDS than either SCH or AST, still had at least 2 DoTs to manage, and STILL PLAYED FINE.

We didn't have 20+ healing abilities because we didn't NEED them but now we do have those 20 abilities and they're so stupidly powerful that you literally can avoid using half of them and still be fine. FFS, you can go AFK entirely and if the Tank is even semi-decent, you won't be missed because of how little damage there is to heal that they themselves can resolve with their own toolkits. The "Healer should Heal" mentality only works when there's actually something to heal, which has been lacking since HW IMO.

I don't want another unnecessary oGCD heal that I will rarely use, I want some god damn synergy within my kit to keep me entertained.
I don't want to Spam 1 Button endlessly in content, I want something that actually stimulates my mind.
I don't WANT to play a DPS role, I want the Healers that I fell in love with back.

This is very true.

Also with fewer oGCDs, mana management was way more prevalent to the point that if the group ate a lot of bad, you would need to actually hold dpsing to not run OOM because you needed those AoE gcds.

The healing kit we have today is really bloated not in usability, but in functionality - I don't even remember the last time I had to use Synastry as an AST. I'm not an ultimate player so maybe there's an use for everything that a healer offers there, but then, that content is approached by a minority.

I think bringing healer dps complexity back is the only way to make the role more interesting without revamping bigger things like fight design and whatnot.