Can we delete Seraph, Dissipation, Excog and Sacred Soil? Some ideas on top of it...

[Sebazy]

1) Trading damage for utility works well in games designed for that; FFXIV is not such a game. You see complaints all the time from PLD's that they seldom/never use their utility buttons because there just aren't cases that call for them. Guard is an amazing thematic and potentially gameplay ability...that is almost never used. BECAUSE FFXIV fights are based around doing damage and beating enerages (the entire crux of the "all Jobs are DPSers" argument), utility that DOES NOT increase damage is seen as less preferable to just bringing more damage. We've already seen this be a concern in FFXIV's past.

This goes back to fights being rather bland and safe in some ways compared to what we used to have. By Guard I assume you mean Cover? Go back to the ARR-SB era and you'll find Cover had a ton more use. In O4S it was an absolute saver and I couldn't begin to tell you how many times I was bailed out of an imminent death by it. That's not the case anymore because A) Bosses do so few tank busters anymore, B) Tanks almost never struggle for agro and I can't remember the last time I saw an enmity reset mechanic & C) Tanks don't have a penalty for generating agro anymore. In many ways Cover is the tank version of Fluid Aura, a relic of the past for situations that rarely ever spring up in modern content. PLDs didn't complain about it back then because it used to bring genuine value.

2) It's not an issue right now so much BECAUSE it doesn't exist right now so much. If you look at damage within roles, the spread is pretty narrow. The highest DPSer in the game nly does about 3% more damage than the lowest DPSer. Tanks and healers are even more compact than that. The disparity between a WAR and DRK's damage is pretty low. It does exist, yes, but it's VERY minimal, and its self-healing means healers can do more DPS to make up for it slightly anyway. And we have had situations where Jobs doing a few % less than the overall creates a situation where they've been blacklisted.

Eehhh, it's a good bit more than 3%. In pug content where you can't guarantee value from buffs the gap is huge, Dancer is somewhere around 25% upwards behind the likes of Samurai. At the opposite end of the spectrum, in organised high end play, MCH peaks about 13% behind NIN's peak raid rDPS output. Granted, tanks are indeed generally much closer (Although again, DRK's burst damage cannot be underestimated here) but healers are highly dependant on organised play for their damage to even out. An AST in a messy pug where the DPS aren't getting value from Divination and cards is going to be some 20% behind a Sage or WHM.

I genuinely think you're just overblowing the manner in which the community will treat jobs that are behind the curve. Sure they won't be preferable but blacklisted? Meh, the last time I remember routinely seeing jobs entirely locked out of PFs was WHM during Creator, AST befell a similar fate during Gordias and in both cases it was arguably warranted as they were both significantly undertuned relative to the competition (WHM just ran out of MP far too easy in Creator, AST ran a knife edge of barely having enough throughput in Gordias with no way to catch back up if they fell behind).

In typically pugged content the composition really doesn't matter (As is handily demonstrated by the variety of comedy comps that can clear even early Savage turns nowadays) and if a static is specifically trying to get a precise flavour of the month comp above just getting people that are decent and reliable then they are either pushing for speed runs or more likely a group that's best avoided.

So these do seem to be issues that can't be ignored, and that is what this opinion is based on.

It's still just roundabout conjecture though no?

[Silver-Strider]

The rest of its kit just WORKS

Listen Todd Howard, just because something works does NOT make it fun. If anything, it just highlights how awful the healer role in general is when you have to settle for FUNctional instead of actually being fun

[Renathras]

Listen Todd Howard, just because something works does NOT make it fun. If anything, it just highlights how awful the healer role in general is when you have to settle for FUNctional instead of actually being fun

I mean, I find it FUN as well as working. But, again, the argument is "If we make 3 healers complex leaving 1 alone for people that like present healing, why is this unacceptable/bad?" That is, if we're giving people that want complex healers THREE OF THEM, why must they have ALL FOUR?

I've yet to see an actual argument against this that isn't subjective "Well, _I_ think that would be boring; implying EVERYONE would find it boring and thus we have to change it or no one would play it because it would be boring".

No one says the part after the semi-colon, probably because we all know it isn't true. It's more likely a LOT of people like simple and would play it, thus making the argument everyone wants complex out as a lie (we'd actually see really quickly how many healers prefer simple vs how many want complex, and I'm QUITE confident at least 25% would pick simple, and probably closer to 50%...are you convinced that everyone would gravitate to the complex and abandon the simple, really?), ripping away the fog of uncertainty about which style is preferred. We'd also see the people that prefer simple still able to clear current content.

EDIT:

The second argument is "Well, MY favorite healer is the one that would stay simple, so _I_ would still be bored; so screw all the people on the other healers that like simple AND on my healer that like simple - everyone should be forced to change to suit me and how dare I have to swap healers even if I'm asking all 4 of the healers' simple players to swap away from healing or completely change how they play."

Needless to say, that's selfish AND unfair. It's replacing one group of people who are miserable (people who want complexity) with another (people who want simple), and that latter group is VERY LIKELY the larger group. It's also rejecting the actual compromise position that could maximize the amount of people who are happy, or at least content.

I don't want to play psychic, but I'm starting to wonder if the "I'm board/want complex/healing is boring" is just a mask for "I'm an elitist and want other people to not be able to clear MY content". Thus far, I've stubbornly been giving people the benefit of the doubt and NOT assuming that, btw.

This goes back to fights being rather bland and safe in some ways compared to what we used to have...

Agreed, but as many have noted, I've advocated for, and people here have opposed; that would require changing how fights are designed going forward to make that utility/healing worth it. And it carries the risk of some utility Jobs being too powerful. If PLD is the only Job with Cover, and there's some mechanic where you REALLY need Cover, that means the other tanks are less desirable for the content. On the other hand, if the content doesn't NEED Cover, and Cover isn't so useful you trade damage for it, then you take DRK/GNB instead.

Eehhh, it's a good bit more than 3%...

I'll have to check again, but the max parses were close the last time I looked, and the averages, too. And for healers and tanks, the gap is even more narrow in terms of party-wide DPS.

I genuinely think you're just overblowing the manner in which the community will treat jobs that are behind the curve...

This community literally rejected SAMs, as a matter of course, from most PF groups in SB. Today, MCH's have trouble finding Statics. I don't mean "Blacklisted from their friends list", I mean "have some major difficulty getting into groups/statics."

This community has done that in the past and IS doing it in the present. I'm not sure using past AND PRESENT actions to project what would likely happen were we to adopt such a change is foolish. I'd argue NOT doing so would be more divorced from reality. If you're making a statistical prediction, you use past and present statistical information to inform that prediction, do you not? I'm doing the same here. You can argue over the magnitude, but not the fact that it has happened, IS happening, and would likely happen again. Even if the magnitude is less than my concern/prediction/projection, I think we should be able to agree it would still likely happen...and I'd hope we can agree that would be kind of a negative thing.

And yes, it doesn't matter - but as I've said before, the meta informs people even running content where it's completely irrelevant. Why? Well...because people are kinda lazy. If a meta tells them X Job is subpar, they don't often go into the fine print and of specific comps, content, etc. They just go "Oh, that Job is trash. Yeah, let's not allow it in our PF group/static." You seem like an intelligent person, so I think you should be able to draw the same inference here. Again, you can argue magnitude, but you can't insist a thing won't happen that both has happened and is happening.

It's still just roundabout conjecture though no?

Now you're reaching.

You asked what it was based on. I told you what it was based on. What it was based on seems to be reasonable, and I'll note you didn't contest that the conjecture and its basis ARE reasonable. Insisting on the technicality that it is still conjecture is not a rebuttal if you aren't able to argue cogently against the conjecture, its basis, or its conclusion. The contra position that it WON'T happen is ALSO still "just … conjecture".

It's also not "roundabout". It's a rational prediction based on existing data. It's DIRECT conjecture, not ROUNDABOUT conjecture, thank you very much.

EDIT:

Putting this here because of daily limit, will try to remember to make a new post for it later...or not:

Depending on how that complexity is granted (i.e., as to factor more into the job's ceiling than floor), any player who doesn't want a complex kit already has their wish fulfilled: they can just use less of the kit.

Not while still clearing content.

Given that even the hardest content in the game can be either solo-healed

ONE PLAYER in an elite group managing to do a thing with a flawless team does not reflect the normal game experience.

Which is more complex, MNK or SAM? BRD or DNC? DRG or RDM? You might be able to come to an answer to each based on your personal warrants, but would others arrive at the same conclusions?

Yet SMN is the least complex, and I don't think you will find one person arguing otherwise.

That's what you're leaving out here: Complexity is differently perceived by different people.

This is true, but also applies to your own position. Guaranteed there are some people playing FFXIV right now that feel WHM is complex and nuanced as-is

Giving each job more to work with is not going to force them to be themed around being complex for the sake of being complex;

If the purpose of adding it IS to make them complex, then yes, it is.

it merely allows them the ability to distinguish themselves

I'm confused, is the argument that people wanting complexity are bored or that people wanting complexity want to stand out and look down their noses at their inferiors? These are two VERY different things...

Find me the players who specifically want their kit to literally look like...

/raises hand

And I'm not alone.

That seems like a combination of projection and a false ultimatum. There is no requirement that WHM, must remain unchanged for the others to receive positive changes. Improvements to most are not thus dependent on ritual sacrifice of one.

FIRST: They aren't "positive changes". They're positive TO YOU because YOU LIKE complex. The same argument you made about comparing Jobs above applies - did RDM or DRG get positive changes in EW? Depends on who you ask...

SECOND: It IS an ultimatum. This is the system we have now. You are wanting it to change. It is incumbent on you to (a) prove the change is worthwhile, (b) make accommodations for those not wanting the change, and (c) come up with some compromise if your system isn't palatable to everyone.

Not only that, your OWN position is an ultimatum - change ALL the healers...or else!

And as for where you underlined "over" in "overcomplicate"; I used that term specifically to counter your use of "boring", "bland", etc. See how it feels when people use biased terms opposing your view? I'm sure you don't understand, but I'm trying to get you to see there's another side.

Spare us the blasé and strawmanned moralizing?

Says the person insisting on a caricature? This is exactly what you're doing when you refuse to allow ANY healer to stay as it is. I fear this is a "if the shoe fits..." reaction on your part.

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You completely ignored my saying I DO want you to be happy and explaining to you WHY we should have a "ritual sacrifice" of one. I'll also note you ignored my argument entirely on that matter, the only way you at all acknowledged it was to hand-wave it away as "you can just be bad" as if that's a legitimate counter to making content unplayable to a segment of the playerbase, and ignored my question related to that:

That would mean I would lose the Job I like best, but I'm willing to give that up so people like you can be happy. All I ask is that ONE Job be one that I can play on and be happy.

...and you would deny me even that. ... Do you not see how that's a bad thing?

Is it fair to assume you DON'T care if anyone else is happy and DON'T WANT people like me to be happy? Do you see how that's selfish and cruel of you and not at all moderate, sober minded, nor a compromise?

I've appealed to you with reason.
I've appealed to you with compassion.
I've appealed to you with compromise.

Yet you've rejected them all, often ignore or caricature my positions, and refuse even a token compromise beyond "Well, you can just be bad under the new system", which is NOT a compromise of any kind.

I know of no further appeal to make if heart, argument, and reason have all failed. So I will just say this and then yield the floor:

Right now, you get NOTHING that you want.

Under my proposal, you'd get SOMETHING you want.

You're rejecting SOMETHING because it's not EVERYTHING, and so you're likely to get NOTHING.

I don't want you to get NOTHING, but your stubborn insistence on EVERYTHING makes it hard for me to even argue you should get SOMETHING.

I'd encourage you to consider compromise and...be less selfish. But I can see my appeals are falling on deaf ears, so I'll let other readers decide what they want and just move on...

[Shurrikhan]

But are we going to pretend that every AST, SCH, and SGE wants a complex kit?

Depending on how that complexity is granted (i.e., as to factor more into the job's ceiling than floor), any player who doesn't want a complex kit already has their wish fulfilled: they can just use less of the kit.

Given that even the hardest content in the game can be either solo-healed or healed without using GCDs (other than the occasional ReciAdloDeployment), it's not as if the average player in average content is forced to use the whole kit or face inevitable defeat.

If we make all the healers more complex, EVERYONE who likes simple loses. If we leave healers as they are, EVERYONE who likes complex loses.

Which is more complex, MNK or SAM? BRD or DNC? DRG or RDM? You might be able to come to an answer to each based on your personal warrants, but would others arrive at the same conclusions?

That's what you're leaving out here: Complexity is differently perceived by different people. And I'm not talking about just the sum or gestalt, but also the individual parts and systems. The thing is, though, you cannot much differentiate those parts and systems, let alone how they influence that gestalt such that each job is different enough that like parts are differently received based on the different systems into which they fit or like systems feel differently due to the others that surround them... without a decent number of parts, systems, and interactions in the first place.

Giving each job more to work with is not going to force them to be themed around being complex for the sake of being complex; it merely allows them the ability to distinguish themselves and really buy into their job fantasies and zones of attraction. Having the means to have those jobs --real, fleshed-out job-- that are especially likely to resonate each with a portion of players requires some base of complexity beyond the role templates we follow now.

Because then you're robbing the option from people who DON'T want that.

Find me the players who specifically want their kit to literally look like...

• ST spammable attack.
• ST DoT
• AoE spammable attack
• ST spammable heal
• AoE spammable heal
• Short-CD ST heal
• Mid-CD ST heal
• Long-CD ST heal
• AoE spammable heal
• Short-CD AoE heal
• Mid-CD AoE heal
• Long-CD AoE heal
• ST spammable HoT
• AoE CD HoT
• Raid defensive
• Heal bonus percentile
• Heal bonus flat

...and where one's interactions/idiosyncracies are at most that, say, the short-CDs build their potency-refunds retroactively (affects all of 2 of the base components)... and you may have a point. Short of that? Unlikely.

It's not "let's revitalize 3 healers OR all 4 healers?", it's "let's overcomplicate 3 healers OR leave ALL FOUR healers as they are today".

That seems like a combination of projection and a false ultimatum. There is no requirement that WHM, must remain unchanged for the others to receive positive changes. Improvements to most are not thus dependent on ritual sacrifice of one.

There is no content in this game, even Ultimate, that truly requires one to make use of every part of even our current, shallow kits; why presume then that the skill floor would be so raised if jobs were given more to play around with and to distinguish themselves that one job would have to be left behind, dull and dusty?

Additionally, find me this supposed group who wants to require a galaxy-brain understanding of one's kit just for modicum of play or any gleeful begging for convolution itself? Otherwise, the idea that any tools, features, or interactions added to our jobs to better take advantage of the modern climate --i.e., this game's refusal to make content require more than a fifth of a healer's maximal healing-- would necessarily result in "overcomplicated" jobs seems mere projection.

But the problem comes when nothing is enough for you but having EVERYTHING. Where someone offers you a Lamborghini... but you refuse and insist that we give you a Lambo AND a Porsche AND a Viper and a McLaren...

Spare us the blasé and strawmanned moralizing?

[Silver-Strider]

I mean, I find it FUN as well as working. But, again, the argument is "If we make 3 healers complex leaving 1 alone for people that like present healing, why is this unacceptable/bad?" That is, if we're giving people that want complex healers THREE OF THEM, why must they have ALL FOUR?

I've yet to see an actual argument against this that isn't subjective "Well, _I_ think that would be boring; implying EVERYONE would find it boring and thus we have to change it or no one would play it because it would be boring".

The inverse is also true. What's the counter argument against making all 4 healers complex other than "I enjoy it as it is"? All we have are assumptions and no real data to support either argument.

What we have seen though is the Instant Healer queue for most Duty Finder Content and longer than average queue times for other roles waiting for healers. If the "allegedly" larger group of people are fine with healers as they are, why is the queue time for content getting worse? Because that group doesn't main healers. They jump on it periodically to rush thru normal content and don't touch the jobs outside of that. Sure, there's probably a minority of those people in that group that actually enjoy healers as they are and actively main the role but then you have the jaded healer mains that are so disgusted with the role they've stopped with it entirely and considering that the queues are getting worse, I feel that they might have been the majority after all.

[Shurrikhan]

FIRST: They aren't "positive changes". They're positive TO YOU because YOU LIKE complex. The same argument you made about comparing Jobs above applies - did RDM or DRG get positive changes in EW? Depends on who you ask...

We've established already that preferences are subjective. By "positive" I am speaking specifically of a kit's ability --by being allowed a few more tools, features, systems, interactions, or what have you-- to appeal to those preferences by being allowed more than a mere single interaction, a couple traded-abouts, and a couple further idiosyncrasies (mostly unique constraints/weaknesses) beyond just a shared base kit.

SECOND: It IS an ultimatum. This is the system we have now. You are wanting it to change. It is incumbent on you to (a) prove the change is worthwhile, (b) make accommodations for those not wanting the change, and (c) come up with some compromise if your system isn't palatable to everyone.

That is neither quite the same goalpost nor the same topical bounds.

But, so be it. Let's take an example. The vast majority of SAMs who have expressed their opinions here and across Reddit have suggested that the existing SAM be reverted to its 6.08 state. Already, that reversion would nonetheless be a change. By your rules, though, they have to somehow compromise to the 2% or so who found Kaiten to difficult or burdensome to use and thus did not, until recently, play SAM anyways.

That existing state is considered by both the majority of long-term invested players of the job and even the current majority of the class's players to be inferior to another. Why should a minority opinion hold a majority stake in any discussion just for having had lucked out from a dice-roll that negatively affected all others? Why should there be such an incumbent advantage to the detriment of most players?

The same applies, too, to healers. Until Shadowbringer, spending 95% of GCDs on a single button was not the norm. Until Shadowbringers, having near-perfect offensive uptime outside of Ultimate and perhaps Savage prog (not even farm, mind you) was not the norm. Changing away from that by increasingly babying the role's skill floor, pruning the portion of actions that, inadvertently, the prior decision had magnified, and generally increasing homogeneity among healers were not popularly considered good changes.

Yet, likewise, since you lucked out by getting the most out of ill-warranted and ill-received changes, at others' expense, you feign that it is now only common sense and necessity that all capitulate to and compromise for your smaller position on the mere basis that anything else would be a "change," even if it be primarily a reversion.

You're rejecting SOMETHING because it's not EVERYTHING, and so you're likely to get NOTHING.

No, I simply rejected your ultimatum because, again, one does not need to reduce everyone else to the shallow level of kit they are willing to engage with to still engage with only a shallow level of kit and nonetheless get by in the game. There is therefore no need to sacrifice a whole job to those either Sylphies or those who'd be overwhelmed pressing more than a couple GCD buttons. Both can get by just fine among less constrained kits, just as they did before.

The only points of contention, ultimately, are Ultimate and very particular Savage fights. If your insistence is that there must be allowance for whatever group who wants to put in less effort for the same result no matter the content's level, then by all means, bring your vote accordingly, and those who'd rather healers had more to do --and could care less for that group's entitlement-- will do the same in turn. Let the vote decide; don't rely solely on incumbent advantage to suppress a contrary position.

[Renathras]

The inverse is also true. What's the counter argument against making all 4 healers complex other than "I enjoy it as it is"? All we have are assumptions and no real data to support either argument...

Wait what?

No.

The inverse argument would be "Why don't we have 3 simple healer and allow at least ONE to be complex?"

And I've already said I 100% agree that's a valid question, which is why _I_ am perfectly content with not only one, but THREE of them being complex.

/facepalm
/rubface

The counter argument against making all 4 healers complex I've made over and over again:

Some people like simple healers and would be alienated and likely unable to clear content if all four were made complex, thus foreclosing significant parts of the game from many members of the playerbase. I've literally made this argument over and over again in probably the majority of my posts here. I've PRESENTED an argument other than "I enjoy it as it is".

NUMEROUS TIMES.

If you're replying to my posts, SURELY you've READ THEM before hitting that reply button? So you should know I've ALREADY made that argument. I can yet again, if you wish?

EDIT:

In my DC (Primal), healers are the first slots fully filled up in PF. I've had to start my own parties or catch a party RIGHT when it forms because the healers slots are full, often before the DPS ones and always before the tank ones are.

My tank ques are instant. The instant que for 24 mans is almost always DPS. The que times aren't "getting worse". At this moment, AiN on my DC is Tank for everything other than Guildhests.

GUILDHESTS are the only thing that has Healer as AiN/instant que right this moment on Primal.

Does this mean you AREN'T the majority after all?

.

Besides which, have you even looked at the argument you're attacking?

Suppose 75% - three quarters - of healers, a VAST majority by any stretch, want healers to be complex.

...giving you 3 out of 4 healers is 75%. So what is your argument for getting the other 25%, exactly?

.

This is what I mean.

You guys don't have an actual argument for making all four healers complex other than "No one can enjoy simple" and/or "Well, _I_ want them to all be complex" and/or "They can still do all NORMAL MODE content being bad".

There's yet to be a reason given for making all four complex. Not one of you have articulated why leaving ONE healer simple is bad, unacceptable, etc other than "Well, some people main that healer because of its aesthetic and want it to be complex", but if we use that argument, then ALL FOUR HEALERS have some people on them that main them because of their aesthetic and want them to be simple, so we cannot use that metric since it can be used just as well by both sides.

.

Oh hey, DPS is now 24 man AiN and healers now have Trials in addition to Guildhests. SURELY this is indicative of a massive sea change and exodus of healers, right?? /sarcasm

...sigh.

Sorry, I don't mean to be sarcastic and snippy, but you clearly didn't even read my post and aren't arguing facts or reason or...anything. If you think the inverse of 1/3 is 4/0, I'm not sure how to reach you with logic. That certainly makes no sense with math.

.

I'd like to hope there's ONE sane, reasonable, pragmatic person on the complex side, but you guys aren't giving me a lot of hope...

[QooEr]

I'd like to hope there's ONE sane, reasonable, pragmatic person on the complex side, but you guys aren't giving me a lot of hope...

not everyone is going to agree with you on everything, and thats fine. disagreeing doesnt mean someone is being unreasonable or unpractical or insane. i have disagreed with many people "on my side" (whatever that means) because we are literally different people. theres no need to proselityze your point. theres a difference between discussing things and convincing others. (i do think most people overall need better rhethorical skills but thats neither here or there...)

even if i agree with you that there should be a spectrum of simple<->complex where healers are placed differently, i dont agree that the bottom line should be so abysmally low. im sure everyone has their own reasons for wanting whm to get even a little bit more to it than what it has right now. i believe things can be simple without being shallow. things can be simple in one thing but more complex in another (eg: simple in execution, complex in planning, etc). i know that jobs can have depth that everyone dont need to know or care about to clear even the hardest content outside of literally week1 prog. people liked whm in SB cuz it was simple, they liked it in ShB cuz it was simple, they like it now cuz it is simple. clearly theres a threshold that people who like simple things are willing to accept. now why do i think being shallow by design is problematic?

- jobs need to grow in every new expansion. how do you add anything to whm as-is without making it more complex? i dont think its practical to keep the bar is so dreadfully low, because then almost anything counts as "technically more complex" but not necessarily in any way that would realistically inconvenience players who like things simple. (we go back to the beginning...) if what you like is a low skill count, whm can still have traits and modal buttons to give it a little more without overwhelming players with too many actions like the other healers do.

- if whm stayed simple in execution, it should at least have SOME nuance for planning and synergy. planning heals is a 2 player duty, so whm being so shallow does in fact negatively affect their cohealer. i find planning and coordinating healing with my cohealer fun, but whm has so little going for it that theres barely anything to plan. it has One instance of mitigation every 2 minutes, the only other thing it can help with is asylum for boosting shields. thats literally it, and it rather use lilies on downtime too so thats even less it can help in actual healing. and in uncoordinated groups whm quite literally relies on everyone else doing things right because it can barely contribute on their own.

- despite me loving intricate jobs and minmaxing, i like simple jobs too!!! i liked using whm (now sge) in expert roulettes when i did not want to think or bother with astros cards. and yet there is still a gap between "so simple its utterly braindead and i might as well have a macro that presses holy 10 times" and "simple enough i dont have to worry but still keeps me awake". having a little more to work with can make things less monotonous, and if i seriously cant be bothered at that moment, thats fine too. theres way worse players out there for anyone to chatsize a healer doing slightly sub-optimal damage.
tangentially: warrior is pretty chill in dungeons. if im distracted or lazy and accidentally break my combo or overcap gauge... literally who cares? but if i feel like actually using my brain in a roulette theres still a bit more to keep me entertained. current healers do not. i sure can go down by literally not pressing buttons, but i cant go up.

- finally i sympathise with people who like whm and dont want to be relegated to babbys first healer. and that doesnt necessarily mean current or past whms only. i think having a bit of room to grow is healthy for the mains of any job. and again, there can be depth that most players do not notice, but can still be there for people who want something more.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

Some people liked HW DRK when they could spam Abyssal Drain to endlessly heal themselves.
Some people liked Kaiten because it gave SAM's Kenki Gauge an actual purpose.
Some people liked Trick Attack on a 1 minute timer because it was unique from all the 2 minute CDs

SE has alienated all these people and more with their constant design shifts over the years. WHM was always a simple job before the removal of so many of its old skills but it still had some level of depth with Cleric Stance, managing 2 DoTs instead of 1, having to actually utilize its GCD heals effectively because of MP management, etc. and it has all been stripped away from the job to a point that it now fails to teach new healers how to properly heal effectively because the first 50+ levels of the job run counter intuitive to how the job plays at max level. Why are so many of WHM's most important skills backloaded now as opposed to before in ARR?

Why were Stoneskin, Divine Seal, Fluid Aura and Protect taken away JUST to be reintroduced as Divine Benison, Temperance, Assize and Aqua Veil post level 50? Could they not all be returned as low level versions and upgraded as you level?
Why can't Aero 3, and AoE DoTs in general for all Healers, return? If Healers can manage 1 Nuke/1 DoT, why doesn't the AoE "Rotation" follow suit?
What's wrong with having more synergy within our toolkits? Why can't Tetra grant a Lily upon usage and why can't Regen/Medica 2 have a proc akin to BLM's Thundercloud for Aero/Dia spells?
Why are Afflatus Solace and Rapture post level 50 skills when they're literally just instant cast versions of Cure 2 and Medica, skills we have by level 30?
Why does Freecure still exist when it should simply upgrade Cure 1 into Cure 2?

Would making adjustments to accommodate these changes suddenly make WHM too complicated? NO. You can have a simple design but there's a difference between simple and braindead.

If I could redesign WHM while keeping its simple premise, here's what I would do.

At levels 15/20/25, I would return Fluid Aqua, Protect and Stoneskin as low level versions of Assize, Aqua Veil and Divine Benison.
I would make Cure 1 cost 700 MP and when I unlocked the Freecure trait at level 28, Cure 1 upgrades into Cure 2 for the same MP cost.
Since level 30 is now free from Cure 2, let's move Regen here as the final CNJ skill we learn and have it come with the Thundercloud proc trait by default.
Upon unlocking WHM, we also unlock the Lily System at level 30, so let's introduce Solace AND Rapture at this time. Presence of Mind can be moved back to level 35 since Regen got moved down.
At level 40, we unlock Cure 3 and Divine Seal (much like it was in ARR when Cure 3 was a CNJ skill while Divine Seal was a WHM skill).
Aero 2 is changed into an AoE DoT instead of just an upgrade to Aero 1.

So by level 50, nothing really changes with WHM other than some much needed QoL.
You're MP economy is pretty much fixed with Lucid, Fluid Aura, Solace and Rapture being available, to say nothing of having Protect, Stoneskin and Divine Seal offering more utility to help you perform your job better.
You have 1 Nuke/DoT for both your ST and AoE Rotations
Regen and Medica 2 have the Thundercloud Proc effect that leaves them feeling mildly more useful to utilize.
Cure 1 is no longer a button to allow Aero 2 to be its own thing without increasing button bloat.

The only changes for HW related content would be to move Tetra down to level 58 and make Afflatus Misery the level 60 capstone skill (but at a different potency because its current potency is kind of ridiculous for that level)

[glamazon]

Don’t understand this complex idea people keep mentioning aren’t all dps classes more complex than every healer? Aren’t tanks more complex than every healer? So why do those jobs get engaging rotations with synergistic kits while we get nothing like that.