New Missaphenchair video makes great point about the direction of job design

[MellowMink]

I really liked this video a lot and generally agreed with him on almost everything here; I hope the game designers watch it, with a community manager or other staff member doing translation instead of the video maker having to if needed.

[darkdyllon]

Then learn, or if you are unwilling go to an easier job. Acquiescence will only deteriorate gameplay further.



I refuse to believe more than a tiny fraction of the population would legitimately have this issue. A week of effective practice at an entry level will see significant progress in any skill, let alone a not-overly-difficult video game.

pretty much this.
anyone can learn anything if they put the time and effort into it, you might not find it interested and that will hinder your progress, but that's on the player, unless like 85% of the playerbase despises it, then yeah it's the design.
i wasn't sure about red mage when i started it, i do enjoy it, i went from an 0-10 parser in savage to an 75-85 parser in savage, the only fight i haven't got atleast an 75 on was p4s part 1, but that fight is crazy optimised, so i don't mind it that much.
i put in the effort to learning the rotation, when to use abilities and when not to, now to the point i'm doing ultimate content on rdm and i'm fine with it.

i always despised the notion of "some people can't learn this" ... no, everyone can, but are you willing to, that's the real question.
i find politics extremely boring, i could still learn politics, would i do it as fast as someone who is passionate about it? not really, but i could learn and master politics, at that point it becomes an "am i willing to spend the time and effort into learning politics" if that's an yes, then i'll learn it, if no, then simply i'm not doing it, but that's not the politics fault, not everything is for everyone.
some people like healing people, some don't, can those who don't like it learn healer? absolutely, it's also been proven that most handicaps only hinder your progress, not make it impossible, seen quite a few disabled players on the forums lately stating that they would like the option for an 1 handed controller style (keyword is option, they're not demanding it or forcing the rest to adopt it) so in most cases anyone can learn everything, just a matter of if they want to.

[Ruminous]

I wonder if people ever remember that other people play this game and consulting with your peers if you don't quite understand how to play a job would help you learn how to play the job in question. At least, I thought that was what you could do.

[xAFROx]

I wonder if people ever remember that other people play this game and consulting with your peers if you don't quite understand how to play a job would help you learn how to play the job in question. At least, I thought that was what you could do.

What are you talking about? Final Fantasy is a single player series. XIV is no different.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Renathras]

Forum ate my post TWICE:

1) No one things people complaining hate the game or want it to fail. People just disagree on if their solutions are good or not.

2) Changes are probably for the mid-core; people that are mostly casual but just a nudge away from trying harder content.

3) Homogenization comes from incremental changes that MAKE SENSE AT THE TIME. Continuation getting range makes sense...but so does Overpower being a circle instead of a cone. Enough changes, argued under the best of intentions, eventually add up to bland homogenization. A vocal minority (because it always is) complained about WAR's cone AOE. Now that it's gone, another group is complaining that it's gone. Complaints lead to homogenization; ALMOST every change towards homogenization FFXIV has seen has been in response to players asking for it in some way or another, either directly or getting it in a sort of "corrupt-a-wish" result of other complaints.

4) It cuts both ways as well that skill ceiling can be raised without touching skill floor. Likewise (in line with the next point), it's fine if some Jobs have higher skill floors (BLM) and others lower skill ceilings (SMN). And there are enough Jobs in each role (the SMALLEST roles have 3) that you can have a easy, medium, and hard in each role and people can play the one they like best.

5) "It's okay that some Jobs aren't for everyone" needs to become our collective national anthem of FFXIV. If more people understood this, it would be far better for the community and for the game. I love SCH's class fantasy, but some of its nuance is too galaxy brain for me. I still learned it because I liked it and can play it passably...but when given the choice, I tend to do more content on WHM because I like its direct and straigtforward kit better. I dual main both, but I don't AST because I get that it's just not for me...and that's okay, because it IS for some other people, as is SCH.

Lets see if THIS ONE posts... <_<

.

EDIT:

In fact, who asks for free space on their hotbar? As far as I know there's 1 controller player out of 20 who's complaining about not having enough space.

Me personally, I think 30 buttons is enough. If a Job needs more than 30 buttons, something's wrong. Think about how many buttons 30 buttons IS. In WoW, I had two line bars (1 to =, so 12 buttons per bar, I believe - been a while since I played) with buttons for most classes. That's 24. I had the side hotbars up for other things like mounts, teleports, professions, and so on. All those flavor/utility/field skills that FFXIV doesn't have outside of Bozja/Eureka.

29 abilities can fit on two sets of crossbars (easy tabbing between them with a single press of right bumper) leaving space for Sprint, LB, and Potion (which can be swapped for mount of your choice when not zoned into a boss fight)

That said, I have no trouble with Jobs that have more, I just don't play them much/at all. AST has massive button bloat, WHM and SGE can fit all their buttons just dropping Repose or something (which you can't use most of the time anyway, and can swap the spot on your bar between Rescue and Repose in the field). And I don't see a good argument for "If a Job has less than 30 distinct hotkeys, it's boring". That's like saying a musical instrument which doesn't have MORE THAN 3 octaves is somehow not a real or good musical instrument.

Moreover, this doesn't even mean a Job can't have more than 30 overall ABILITIES. Every Job in the game has more than 30 (especially including Role Actions), but some Jobs are smart about how they employ them, such as RDM's Enchanted, Verholy/Flare, Scorch setup where individual buttons pull double duty. WAR also does this with Fell Cleave and Decimate. And this also doesn't mean Job's can't have upgrades through the course of leveling, such as the healer nuke spells which upgrade every 30 levels or so-ish.

Again: Nothing wrong with having something for everyone. We certainly have enough Jobs to allow for that, do we not?

[xAFROx]

Forum ate my post TWICE:

1) No one things people complaining hate the game or want it to fail. People just disagree on if their solutions are good or not.

2) Changes are probably for the mid-core; people that are mostly casual but just a nudge away from trying harder content.

3) Homogenization comes from incremental changes that MAKE SENSE AT THE TIME. Continuation getting range makes sense...but so does Overpower being a circle instead of a cone. Enough changes, argued under the best of intentions, eventually add up to bland homogenization. A vocal minority (because it always is) complained about WAR's cone AOE. Now that it's gone, another group is complaining that it's gone. Complaints lead to homogenization; ALMOST every change towards homogenization FFXIV has seen has been in response to players asking for it in some way or another, either directly or getting it in a sort of "corrupt-a-wish" result of other complaints.

4) It cuts both ways as well that skill ceiling can be raised without touching skill floor. Likewise (in line with the next point), it's fine if some Jobs have higher skill floors (BLM) and others lower skill ceilings (SMN). And there are enough Jobs in each role (the SMALLEST roles have 3) that you can have a easy, medium, and hard in each role and people can play the one they like best.

5) "It's okay that some Jobs aren't for everyone" needs to become our collective national anthem of FFXIV. If more people understood this, it would be far better for the community and for the game. I love SCH's class fantasy, but some of its nuance is too galaxy brain for me. I still learned it because I liked it and can play it passably...but when given the choice, I tend to do more content on WHM because I like its direct and straigtforward kit better. I dual main both, but I don't AST because I get that it's just not for me...and that's okay, because it IS for some other people, as is SCH.

Lets see if THIS ONE posts... <_<

We see you patriot! These points? Yes! This, so much.

But I will say the WAR circle was dumb. Overpower worked fine. But worse still, SAM tenka goken circle? Baaaaad. Real bad.

[Renathras]

We see you patriot! These points? Yes! This, so much.

But I will say the WAR circle was dumb. Overpower worked fine. But worse still, SAM tenka goken circle? Baaaaad. Real bad.

No disagreement with me on WAR. Not to give anyone any ideas, but BRD and MCH still have conal AOEs, and they work just fine. I don't get how a circle is so much better. A bit less movement, I guess? But it's minuscule.

SAM I can't speak to since I don't play it, but it does seem to be a NEAR universally disliked change (there are some people that say it was basically a pointless button before and they're fine with it being removed, though, so it does take all kinds)

[Shurrikhan]

No disagreement with me on WAR. Not to give anyone any ideas, but BRD and MCH still have conal AOEs, and they work just fine. I don't get how a circle is so much better. A bit less movement, I guess?

Given the sacrificed range, for anyone who knew how to target, the circle requires more movement and more restricts one's hits when it most matters.

[xAFROx]

SAM I can't speak to since I don't play it, but it does seem to be a NEAR universally disliked change (there are some people that say it was basically a pointless button before and they're fine with it being removed, though, so it does take all kinds)

Imagine if MCH bioblaster dropped in Potency to be about equal to spreadshot or scattergun and lost all its range and forced you to cast it in while standing on the tank in w2w trash pulls.

That's basically what happened to SAM 2 sen spender Tenka Goken.

[Renathras]

Given the sacrificed range, for anyone who knew how to target, the circle requires more movement and more restricts one's hits when it most matters.

I don't disagree. Someone noted (we did the math to verify) that the circle has a larger total area, but my conclusion was you still have to be in the middle of the pack. While you might have to dance around a BIT with a cone (because if you pull MANY enemies they tend to fan out and encircle your hitbox), but all you have to do is scoosh a little and you're still hitting most or all of them. But with the circle, you have to be pretty centered and can't snag those enemies a bit out of range.

I think my only complaint was I kind of wished they'd have 2 cones instead of 1 cone + 1 circle (or 2 circles). 2 cones would have been nice since you would have the same range/angle with both attacks. But 1 cone + 1 circle was still better than 2 circles, imo

Imagine if MCH bioblaster dropped in Potency to be about equal to spreadshot or scattergun and lost all its range and forced you to cast it in while standing on the tank in w2w trash pulls.

That's basically what happened to SAM 2 sen spender Tenka Goken.

That sounds...pretty terrible, actually. :O