So uh, wheres the long lasting content?

[Ronduwil]

Deleting lucid dreaming would make death overly punishing for healers+RDM/SMN, which would be extremely unbalanced. While healers do have ways of regaining mana outside of Lucid, RDM/SMN would be completely screwed.

It's a role skill. They just need to change the role from general casting to magical DPS. That having been said, it's also the only way to recover enough mana to sufficiently heal after dying. I'm not saying any of these were good ideas. I'm just trying to imagine what a world where healing would be a challenge in regular content would look like. The fact is that healing is so easy these days simply because players are really skilled. There's not much need for healing when everyone is competent enough to avoid 90% of the damage out there. To make healing a challenge, you need to make damage unavoidable and resource management painful. I don't think either of those characteristics make the game fun for most players.

[Deveryn]

No. I mean that they look for reasons to be mad and use irrelevant hyperbolic statements to refute every solution that you throw at them. They're complaining that the midcore mode is too casual but that they don't want to be hardcore. Instead they're moving the goal posts and insisting that hardcore is midcore and demanding that the current midcore content be overtuned so that they can engage in hardcore content without having to resort to the party finder. So many players complain that healers are in a bad place, but I have yet to see anyone offer a vision of what a "good place" for healers would be.

If I were SE, here's how I would go about making healing more of a challenge in regular content:
1. Delete Lucid Dreaming. Make resource management an actual challenge
2. Add more "DPS Buster" mechanics to the fights so that healers have something to mitigate other than raid-wides and tank-busters
3. Add more lethal debuffs to the fights to keep healers busy with dispels in addition to heals
4. Disable healer DPS buttons in instances and replace them with something like the Astrologian card system so that they stay busy while still paying attention to the party

If any or all of these sound awful to you, then either quit complaining about healing or present solutions of your own. I honestly feel that player complaints about the state of healing fall under the category of "you think you do but you don't."

I agree with the sentiment here. There's too much complaining and very little effort put towards actual feasible solutions.

[AngeliouxRein]

It's almost as if , there is not an entire healer section on these forums, loaded with years worth of well thought suggestions that' worked out new skills, old skills, potencies, raid encounters, normal encounters, whole charts and all on what people would like to see... whole discussions, debates, agreements, disagreements... further discussions. Man... that healer section must be some random relic that refuses to reveal itself or something =/ ...

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I look forward to the criterion dungeons, island sanctuary, new deep dungeon etc. They should hopefully be some longer lasting content than what we just got. Some solo harder difficulty battle content feels sorely lacking in the game atm.

[Kazhar]

I agree with the sentiment here. There's too much complaining and very little effort put towards actual feasible solutions.

Why does it matter though? Our only "job" is to provide feedback, the playerbase are not the ones who should think of solutions as they're not game designers.

Nobody is better than the players to identify a problem, but devs are the ones who should find a solution, not us.

[Deveryn]

It's almost as if , there is not an entire healer section on these forums, loaded with years worth of well thought suggestions that' worked out new skills, old skills, potencies, raid encounters, normal encounters, whole charts and all on what people would like to see... whole discussions, debates, agreements, disagreements... further discussions. Man... that healer section must be some random relic that refuses to reveal itself or something =/ ...

With all the new threads and conversations that keep popping up in general, it definitely feels that way. This just adds to the problem.

[Deveryn]

Why does it matter though? Complaining is the playerbase's job, they're not the ones who should think of solutions as they're not game designers.

Nobody is better than the players to identify a problem, but devs are the one who should find a solution to those problems, not us.

Complaining is actually NOT the playerbase's job. As I said earlier, it's only when you give proper feedback that any kind of improvement can be made. You don't have to be a game designer to come up with a potential solution that the designer could then translate to function in the game.

Pick any controversial topic. Look at all the complaining that stemmed from it. What good did it ever do, as it never reached the proper channel? Whining here is the equivalent of yelling at the sky.

[Rolder50]

Why does it matter though? Our only "job" is to provide feedback, the playerbase are not the ones who should think of solutions as they're not game designers.

Nobody is better than the players to identify a problem, but devs are the ones who should find a solution, not us.

What he said. The developers literally get paid to interpret feedback and turn it into actual changes.

[Nizzi]

snip

I think some of the issue is that there is no midcore content really. It's either content that you can do and consume easily like casual stuff or it's stuff that requires you hit your head against the wall and have to spend a large amount of time progging over and over. That's another discussion entirely though and I don't want to get sidetracked because I don't have the same level of complaints that some do in that regard, I am very much someone who enjoys doing the normal stuff over and over-

I think one of the big problems is that Square Enix clearly doesn't want to make healing a challenge in regular content. For what it's worth, while making it harder would please me, I can see how they would think it would just end up making healers more of a bottleneck because it is the case that some players are just plain bad at healers, same as with tanks and DPS. While I would love it if casual things were more heal intensive, I think this is how we would actually start to get a lot more vitriol towards healers who can't perform as well.
Personally, I don't hate the healing kit of healers, even in casual content. I've always said I support people who want to play this game "casually" (and I dislike this term because I consider myself a 'casual' as well despite doing "harder" content at times) should be able to clear the easy mode content and enjoy the story and the fun side content and everything. My problem stems from the fact that what I'm doing in casual content doesn't become more engaging in the harder content because they think the fight mechanics should be where the enjoyment stems from, not how the jobs play. Couple that with the fact that your DPS is required in that level of content, it just makes the problem feel awful because you're forced to start focusing more on that 1-1-1-1 button and less on the majority of your kit outside of scripted damage. It sucks knowing that using GCDs will hurt my team's ability to pass the enrage check, it sucks knowing that every second I'm not casting Broil, I am hurting the party by doing so. Rather than quote all of these, I'll just list by numbers as a response.

1. I wouldn't mind Lucid being removed, jobs like SCH already have MP management built in with Aetherflow, they could and should just return the MP refund back on ED too. Lucid already is just a button you hit on CD without thinking about at all, MP feels extremely vestigal on healers and exists pretty much just to prevent you from being able to chain res or chain spam GCD heals. I want more management on these jobs, so I would enjoy having MP management an actual mechanic.
2. I wouldn't mind this either. They seem to not want to do anything that would have some sort of variance in having to target other players that aren't the tanks often though, and I feel like DPS players would likely complain about suddenly dying because a healer didn't cast a shield or something on them. There's definitely ways they could do it though.
3. I wouldn't mind, I think they should get some more use out of Esuna. I would also like if there was some form of debuff management from the healers; I wish things like Virus had not become Addle for DPS, I rarely see them using it because DPS aren't focused on cast bars nearly as much as tanks and healer players are.
4. I think most healer mains would be fine if they just said "okay your DPS is just for solo instances and here you get something fun and unique for each healer to do instead of DPSing" because we want more to manage, we want interactivity, and we want to help the party in a way that isn't "hit broil/glare/malefic/dosis over and over"

We don't complain about DPSing because we want to do higher numbers, we complain because the game makes us focus on doing it as much as we can and they've made it the same boring thing on every healer. It's annoying and I hate that in the harder content that is supposed to push my knowledge of being a healer, what it really wants is for me to push as many Broil casts as I can while hitting some oGCDs.

The thing is though, even if they decide to have a radical shift from the healing design currently in 7.0, all of the old content is going to play like it does now. While having more fun in 7.0 is not something I would refuse, a majority of the content at any point is never from the current expac. So it really boils down to this:
Square Enix has a design philosophy where healers are pushing out as much DPS as possible, yet they refuse to make them varied or slightly more interesting for any of the healers - this is really dumb and it is part of the huge frustration with healers. I've said it before, I've made a thread about it in the healer role forum, and I'll say it again. Just add Miasma and Bane back to SCH and it would feel much better to play, even in casual content. SCH would have two DoTs on different timers to manage in ST encounters, and adding Bane back would bump SCH's dungeon AoE toolkit from 1 singular button to 3 because now Bio and Miasma could be spread again. Just this little would make Scholar feel varied to the other 3 healers, reintroduce some of its identity back, and give it something it desperately needs - more upkeep and management.

We ask for DPS not because we want to be green DPS, the game expects that of us and wants us to heal less the better we get. They adjusted cast times on our DPS buttons specifically so we can continue to hit them more while using oGCD heals. So they should at least make each DPS style on the healers feel somewhat unique too. I am 100% sincere and genuine, if they add Miasma and Bane back to SCH (without doing something equally dumb like removing Aetherflow/Energy Drain in exchange) I will never post on these forums again because I will be happy that I have more to do.

[Kazhar]

Complaining is actually NOT the playerbase's job. As I said earlier, it's only when you give proper feedback that any kind of improvement can be made. You don't have to be a game designer to come up with a potential solution that the designer could then translate to function in the .

But it is. If I'm disappointed with how they managed Hrothgar hairstyles, telling them exactly that is how to get things moving. I don't need to provide a solution and I literally can't. I have no experience in 3d modelling and I don't know what are their unique limitations. Telling them that I dislike the result is the only relevant thing I can do.