DSR observation: PLD Sheltron does not block while stunned

[Absurdity]

It is, but at the same time it means PLD is the only tank to have a disadvantage there since all other unique tank cooldowns don't have that issue.

It was always at a disadvantage since they homogenized tank's defensive kits but kept the way block works the same.


I said this back in Shadowbringers already but if Paladin doesn't have any more mitigation than every other tank, since they changed Block Rating/Strength to be hard capped at 20% and removed a bunch of it's other defensive options, then Shelltron 100% needs to just be flat mitigation.

After Stormblood we no longer had access to Awareness or higher Block rating from gear which meant that Shelltron was simply inferior to every other short mitigation cooldown, because the way this game calculates damage means it completely ignores block when you're either stunned or the damage is critical.

[Storm-Driver]

The discussion in the thread got really interesting to me, so I'd like to come back to this post.

With the changes to DRK and WAR following the release of Shadowbringers, I felt those two classes had their identifies fundamentally confused.

Going into tank identity specifically:

Warrior was the king of stance dancing in Stormblood, being able to open with 5 DH/CRIT Fell Cleaves to guarantee agro stayed on them, with some self-healing on the side, and the ability to gain a very quick gauge-related damage mitigation by swapping back to their tank stance for a short period. Not to mention the Vengeance+Inner Release damage you could commit on mobs during dungeon pulls.

Dark Knight was the dungeon king. TBN was very nice for mitigating damage, but giving you a charge of Bloodspiller in exchange for losing some MP made healers AND tanks happy. Rotating between Grit's Blood Price, and Darkside's Blood Weapon, spamming Abyssal Drain to just keep yourself alive. It felt extremely unique. It felt like you were just role-playing Guts from Berserk.

Paladin's game was the rigid rotation and focusing on the party more than yourself. Cover was by and far the most useful cooldown you could ask for in Alphascape's Savage tier. Free 20% damage mitigation on a 2 minute cooldown that didn't require haphazard agro swaps (which could be dangerous back then since Shirk was a 3 minute cooldown, AND a role action). Block could mitigate up to 30% of damage, and only needing auto attacks to charge meant it was up basically whenever you needed it.

And then, Shadowbringers release.

Warrior became more unga-bunga focused, with healing as their damage mitigation. Dark Knight BECAME an unga-bunga class, with flat mitigation (and magic defense!) for the party. Paladin remained more or less the same, with Cover being defaulted to an emergency button and no longer a third cooldown. Tank stances were all stream-lined, thus Ninja lost a core part of it's identity. Agro reduction moves were removed from the game. Tanking became DPSing with a slightly easier rotation and a boss looking at you.

Because all the other tanks are focused on mitigating damage, or recovering from the damage taken, it does feel odd that Paladin has never had some kind of major addition like the other two tanks have. I think this Sheltron issue with DSR was a rather big oversight, since it feels odd that the poster-boy tank for this expac would be estranged from a tank mechanic while all the other tanks can handle it just fine on their own. I'm aware that my healers could just buckle down and help me, but they really shouldn't have to. And I shouldn't have to swap to a different tank just to make their lives easier for one mechanic.

[Lyth]

The easiest solution to this is going to be to remove Block from PLD altogether, and make Sheltron/Holy Sheltron's primary effect be a flat 20% DR instead. They might rename passive parry procs on PLD to blocks to retain the aesthetic.

[Amenara]

The easiest solution to this is going to be to remove Block from PLD altogether, and make Sheltron/Holy Sheltron's primary effect be a flat 20% DR instead. They might rename passive parry procs on PLD to blocks to retain the aesthetic.

I feel like the easier solution is allow you to block while stunned...

[Lyth]

People will ask to be able to Parry while stunned next. And then for parry to mitigate magic damage. Block is really an old throwback to when PLD didn't have self-sustain built into its rotation. It's an antiquated advantage that the job has been grandfathered into, but now that you're thankfully drawing focus to it there's a reason to standardize the mechanics such that it's fair across all tanks. Good work.

[Amenara]

People will ask to be able to Parry while stunned next. And then for parry to mitigate magic damage. Block is really an old throwback to when PLD didn't have self-sustain built into its rotation. It's an antiquated advantage that the job has been grandfathered into, but now that you're thankfully drawing focus to it there's a reason to standardize the mechanics such that it's fair across all tanks. Good work.

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Paladin pay for the blocking through having 1 less personal mitigation CD than the other tanks?

[Lyth]

No, they pay for it by having one extra raidwide mitigation CD than the other tanks that also doubles up as a personal Rampart.

[DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise]

Passage of arms is such a fucking disappointment.

Pld just needs another once over by the dev team.

Have whole devteam make new characters and lvl pld no bonuses no roulettes, really put their old-world pld design to the test.
…
Passage of fkn arms… at least it looks cool can yeah it’s another tb soak that nobody needed and looks cool af

[Absurdity]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Paladin pay for the blocking through having 1 less personal mitigation CD than the other tanks?

They kind of did in ShB by having 0 self heal outside of Clemency. This got remedied in EW so now they just have an extremely clunky CD in PoA.

[ZiziT]

Our group runs WAR/PLD and we also ran into this problem. We resolved it by having me (the WAR) use Nascent Flash on the PLD during that set of tankbusters while I use Holmgang. I believe any tank composition can work around Sheltron by using The Blackest Night/Intervention/Heart of Corundum/Nascent Flash on each other, rather than on themselves.

I'd like to refrain from debating whether or not Sheltron and blocking should be adjusted; I just wanted to provide a possible solution in the meantime.