i'm sick and tired of the excuse for not having unique or varied jobs

[Mikey_R]

this is my biggest gripe with the whole well X expansion of job did it and it wasn't done well. ok and? if it was unique and worked why not instead of immediately dismissing it. think about what made it bad and you know fix the problems instead of just gutting it from the kit. hell even SHB MNK fists had their reasons/niches to be used. wind zoom zoom, fire DPS time bb, earth well tanks dead guess i'm OT.

also i'm not trying to be mean towards you or anything cause i think thats how i come off here XD

You had to jump through hoops to get a very very minimal damage gain out of Tornado Kick at the end of SB. Bear in mind, you lost GL3, so you had to use PB and RoW to get it back, considering you were doing less damage, the gain from TK was small.

Also, the fists in ShB did NOT have a reason to be used except for damage focus. You started with Fire until you built up GL3, then switched to Wind for GL4, then stayed in GL4 for the rest of the fight. There was no reason to go back unless you lost GL4. GL was causing alot of problems and was outdated in it's implementation, which is why they are now traits. This also meant FoF was back as the damage fist, and so it was used almost all the time.

I would go through your other post, however it is full of overly simple comparisons and what seems to be a lack of understanding of the game itself. Even some of your points are already in the game implemented into an MMO setting (DDR steps? Is that not what Standard and Technical Steps are?)

[pikalovr]

You had to jump through hoops to get a very very minimal damage gain out of Tornado Kick at the end of SB. Bear in mind, you lost GL3, so you had to use PB and RoW to get it back, considering you were doing less damage, the gain from TK was small.

Also, the fists in ShB did NOT have a reason to be used except for damage focus. You started with Fire until you built up GL3, then switched to Wind for GL4, then stayed in GL4 for the rest of the fight. There was no reason to go back unless you lost GL4. GL was causing alot of problems and was outdated in it's implementation, which is why they are now traits. This also meant FoF was back as the damage fist, and so it was used almost all the time.

I would go through your other post, however it is full of overly simple comparisons and what seems to be a lack of understanding of the game itself. Even some of your points are already in the game implemented into an MMO setting (DDR steps? Is that not what Standard and Technical Steps are?)

funny you bring up not understanding the game when i quite literally brought up each fist has it's own NICHE uses wind was pretty much always the go to for inbetween mob running in dungeons and solo unsyncing dungeons. earth fist has been used in quite a few scenarios or do i need to bring up one tank one healer TEA? you know where thanks to the extra DR and the PLD/healer heals the MNK could offtank for a period and be fine. also i asked for grease stacks to be polished to work in the new MNK cause it would have to anyways since it's been reworked. or something similar but focused on ramping damage or even greater AS if they really wanna get wacky

if you actually read what was being typed and not dismiss everything at a glance you might actually learn something

also once again i literally stated the DDR thing wouldn't work. it was an example of how to make mechanics that feel more in tune with how the job should play/feel. hitting colored buttons in a pattern isn't very different than hitting the same 3 mudras over and over again for example, the only thing that makes it even remotely more interesting is the fact the order can be random. but as a DNC you never really feel like you're dancing and doing damage thats what the arena DDR would accomplish giving the feeling of hitting each dance step (arrow). while not being locked out of dealing damage while you dance. if you could at least use oGCDs while doing each step for standard and technical step. sure that'd also be a good middle ground but instead of you know suggesting that as a valid counterargument you just dismiss the idea entirely. which is the point i made about dismissing things instead of thinking on them.

[Mikey_R]

[QUOTE=pikalovr;5981124]funny you bring up not understanding the game when i quite literally brought up each fist has it's own NICHE uses wind was pretty much always the go to for inbetween mob running in dungeons and solo unsyncing dungeons. earth fist has been used in quite a few scenarios or do i need to bring up one tank one healer TEA? you know where thanks to the extra DR and the PLD/healer heals the MNK could offtank for a period and be fine
A niche use does not make something good. Titan Egi used to be able to tank Ramuh EX solo, that was a niche use, should that have stayed?

It is clearly an unintended design choice that a Monk could tank something and this could have been one of the reasons why they decided that the fists had to go. Also, it doesn't matter how fast you go in a dungeon, you still have to wait for the tank regardless.

if you actually read what was being typed and not dismiss everything at a glance you might actually learn something

If you actually looked deeper at each job and not force them into an overly simplified state, you would realise they are more than just what you describe.

Take you example of Dancer/Bard. You imply that they play the same as they chase procs. What about Monk and Black Mage? They rely on procs? Too far away? How about Red Mage, they go after procs more frequently. Would you say they all play the same? Of course not. Even going to Bard and Dancer, they do not play alike at all.

also once again i literally stated the DDR thing wouldn't work. it was an example of how to make mechanics that feel more in tune with how the job should play/feel. hitting colored buttons in a pattern isn't very different than hitting the same 3 mudras over and over again for example, the only thing that makes it even remotely more interesting is the fact the order can be random. but as a DNC you never really feel like you're dancing and doing damage thats what the arena DDR would accomplish giving the feeling of hitting each dance step (arrow). while not being locked out of dealing damage while you dance. if you could at least use oGCDs while doing each step for standard and technical step. sure that'd also be a good middle ground but instead of you know suggesting that as a valid counterargument you just dismiss the idea entirely. which is the point i made about dismissing things instead of thinking on them.

But if you know it isn't going to work, why suggest it in the first place? Why not try and think of something that COULD work. Maybe what we got is after loads of dev ideas and this is the one they decided fit the best? Also, if you add damage to steps, woldn't that just make it similar to chakras? People always compare Chakras to Mudras, so, if steps ate like mudras in that they have no damage, then adding in damage makes the mundras right? As for using oGCDs during the steps, I could make the argument that NOT allowing them in the steps gives you more to think about. Do you do it before and potentially delay the step, do you wait until after etc. I though tis was the kind of thinking you wanted? (Not that you have enough time to weave in oGCDs between steps without delaying them as it is now anyway).

You also seem to not like gauges, but, how else are you going to keep track of a resource? Even if you want to have multiple uses of the gauge (Kaiten/Shinten/Senei), you just used a different arbitrary line as to when you should use your action. Rather than being able to use it freely, you only use it at 45+ as, in the case with Samurai, that is the cost of Kaiten + Shinten, so that, when you use Shinten, you always had enough for a Kaiten. Granted, losing Kaiten was bad, however, from the posts I have read on the matter, most of them were aimed towards the aesthetic of Kaiten rather than the gauge management.

I could go indepth with each job and show how they all play differently (except maybe healers), however, I would think it better if you took the time to really look at a job and understand it better than the surface level you seem to be stuck at.