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  1. #1
    Player
    M_Red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    30
    Character
    Hasoe Ashen
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    This has been an issue with SAM players since day 1 of patch 6.1. Personally I barely even see anyone playing a SAM anymore because of the changes, and I used to main it until the change. Now it just does overall less damage than before.

    Some say it’s only a 3% decrease, but the numbers I see say differently, even with auto crits.

    The main issue is that they decreased the power of the finishers far too much, to where they barely do half the damage as before, when comparing the crits of the two. Not to mention the gauge is now used to spam one single or two attacks, depending on if you’re attacking multiple enemies or not.

    Personally, I say switch to another class and don’t play it. Let those numbers tell the devs we hate it and continue to say our hate for the change here. I switched to Reaper and Monk, with Reaper being the strongest for me (ironically Reaper for me did far more damage than the new Samurai build did by a large amount. Even taking in the slower attacks, it does far more damage even with not as good gear on it at the time).
    (6)

  2. #2
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by M_Red View Post
    This has been an issue with SAM players since day 1 of patch 6.1. Personally I barely even see anyone playing a SAM anymore because of the changes, and I used to main it until the change. Now it just does overall less damage than before.

    Some say it’s only a 3% decrease, but the numbers I see say differently, even with auto crits.

    The main issue is that they decreased the power of the finishers far too much, to where they barely do half the damage as before, when comparing the crits of the two. Not to mention the gauge is now used to spam one single or two attacks, depending on if you’re attacking multiple enemies or not.

    Personally, I say switch to another class and don’t play it. Let those numbers tell the devs we hate it and continue to say our hate for the change here. I switched to Reaper and Monk, with Reaper being the strongest for me (ironically Reaper for me did far more damage than the new Samurai build did by a large amount. Even taking in the slower attacks, it does far more damage even with not as good gear on it at the time).
    Its roughly 3% from the old potential max. The main difference now is its significantly more consistent which I can't complain about....that said, the dopamine from the build up of kaiten into a big 60k crit is completely gone =/. between that, the awkward flow before iajutus and that fact that kenki may as well not even exist since its just turned into a shinten spam.....Ya sam just isn't enjoyable anymore.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    darkdyllon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    70
    Character
    Darkdyllon Scarab
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
    Its roughly 3% from the old potential max. The main difference now is its significantly more consistent which I can't complain about....that said, the dopamine from the build up of kaiten into a big 60k crit is completely gone =/. between that, the awkward flow before iajutus and that fact that kenki may as well not even exist since its just turned into a shinten spam.....Ya sam just isn't enjoyable anymore.
    the main issue is that they introduced Kaiten as the main ability for SAMs back in Stormblood, everyone loved how flashy it was and hitting big was amazing.
    now the devs (or atleast the job balancer) backed themselves into a corner since somehow they're having difficulities balancing the job around Kaiten. (which is weird concidering that Kaiten was an flat out 50% potency increase, not an number that fluctuates, but i'm not an balancer)
    they're also having difficulities with crits in general and want away from it which they're doing slowly but surely, instead of doing this gradually, they should do it as an big expansion thing like belts.
    make an PTS available where some set in stone encounters can be played with the new version of the job, let anyone enter that PTS so that the sample size is big enough (anything that happens on that PTS affects the main game)

    people would get an taste of what's to come, can give feedback before it gets added and worsen the situation, i get not wanting an PTS for content, but job balancing should be done through PTS.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    655
    Character
    Leon Keyh
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by darkdyllon View Post
    the main issue is that they introduced Kaiten as the main ability for SAMs back in Stormblood, everyone loved how flashy it was and hitting big was amazing.
    now the devs (or atleast the job balancer) backed themselves into a corner since somehow they're having difficulities balancing the job around Kaiten. (which is weird concidering that Kaiten was an flat out 50% potency increase, not an number that fluctuates, but i'm not an balancer)
    The "issue" is the large range of damage; Midare was I think 720 potency? Ignoring Direct Hit you had 4 possibilities with Midare:


    No Kaiten, No Crit: 720 Potency
    No Kaiten, Crit: ~972 potency
    Kaiten, No Crit: 1080 potency
    Kaiten, Crit: ~1332 potency

    Midare averages at about 15% of the damage that Samurai did (in 6.0), having a range that is from X to almost 2X is a very big range given how important it is to the overall performance of the job. If it were a once every 2 minute ability or something that would either be 1% or 2% of your damage that would be one thing, but the way it was set up, it gave Samurai a wide damage range and they just wanted to pull that in.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    cjbeagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    265
    Character
    Nishi Il
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    The "issue" is the large range of damage; Midare was I think 720 potency? Ignoring Direct Hit you had 4 possibilities with Midare:


    No Kaiten, No Crit: 720 Potency
    No Kaiten, Crit: ~972 potency
    Kaiten, No Crit: 1080 potency
    Kaiten, Crit: ~1332 potency

    Midare averages at about 15% of the damage that Samurai did (in 6.0), having a range that is from X to almost 2X is a very big range given how important it is to the overall performance of the job. If it were a once every 2 minute ability or something that would either be 1% or 2% of your damage that would be one thing, but the way it was set up, it gave Samurai a wide damage range and they just wanted to pull that in.
    It was 660 potency before, not 720, but that's beside the point.

    The problem isn't so much with auto-crits as it is the loss of Kaiten's impact on potency.

    6.08
    Midare: 660 (but you never did this)
    Midare + Kaiten: 990
    Midare + Kaiten + direct: 1237
    Midare + Kaiten + crit: ~1584
    Midare + Kaiten + cirt + direct: ~1980

    6.1
    Midare: 600 (but you can't do this because auto-crit)
    Midare + crit: ~960
    Midare + crit + direct: ~1200

    Our auto-crit now is weaker than our non-crits were with Kaiten. If we still had Kaiten and were auto-critting for ~1440 every time and sometimes hitting direct as well for ~1800, I doubt there'd be an outcry.

    Some people would lament the loss of variance, but I suspect that the vast majority of people are lamenting the loss of potency, not the loss of variance.

    Of course, for balance, they can't just make 20% of our damage profile auto-crit (including Ogi Namikiri) - but they could have taken some potency away from filler abilities to balance; instead they did the exact opposite - buffed fillers at the cost of potencies that we actually care about.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    RyuuZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ryu Kusanagi
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Yet.. could it be argued that the Button Bloat Problem is now worse on Samurai?
    due to the Monotony of the Shinten Spam?
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    RyuuZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ryu Kusanagi
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    The "issue" is the large range of damage; Midare was I think 720 potency? Ignoring Direct Hit you had 4 possibilities with Midare:


    No Kaiten, No Crit: 720 Potency
    No Kaiten, Crit: ~972 potency
    Kaiten, No Crit: 1080 potency
    Kaiten, Crit: ~1332 potency

    Midare averages at about 15% of the damage that Samurai did (in 6.0), having a range that is from X to almost 2X is a very big range given how important it is to the overall performance of the job. If it were a once every 2 minute ability or something that would either be 1% or 2% of your damage that would be one thing, but the way it was set up, it gave Samurai a wide damage range and they just wanted to pull that in.
    which is why I had that Idea of "Hey if Midare now guaranteed crit.. just make Kaiten Direct Hit the following attack!", thus Kenki Management would still be rewarded (with Direct Hit) and you Guarantee Direct Crit Midare and Direct Crit Ogi!
    though I still would've have to test how Direct Hit Higanbana works on the DoT and Tenka Goken would still be ruined ^^;
    (0)

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