14' s hunt for new jobs may be overlooking a simple solution.

[Shurrikhan]

Just a consequence of the original game being built on the Class and Armory system. The idea was that while your Class is based on your weapon, you could pick an assortment of cross-class skills and spec your stats to suit different builds for the same Class.

Of course this did not work out the way they intended, but instead of scrapping the system and starting over, they made superficial changes on top of those systems like the Job Stones, imposing the trinity roles. That's one of the main reasons I feel job design is so restricted even today, they are still limited by their decision to build off a completely incompatible design philosophy.

No part of that initial design philosophy has remained since Stormblood.

That initial design philosophy, for one, didn't even have job stones, had class progression only as proficiency ranks separate from character level, had at least some value for each class from nearly every primary stat (building towards different prioritized niches/throughputs), and had virtually no limit placed on Cross-Class skills. The trinity roles that became concrete in HW (and arguably stretch back to 2.1 or even 2.0) have nothing to do with that initial vision. That initial vision could have been better, may be worse, but it certainly hasn't been relevant to present limitations in almost 10 years.

[LioJen]

No part of that initial design philosophy has remained since Stormblood.

That initial design philosophy, for one, didn't even have job stones, had class progression only as proficiency ranks separate from character level, had at least some value for each class from nearly every primary stat (building towards different prioritized niches/throughputs), and had virtually no limit placed on Cross-Class skills. The trinity roles that became concrete in HW (and arguably stretch back to 2.1 or even 2.0) have nothing to do with that initial vision. That initial vision could have been better, may be worse, but it certainly hasn't been relevant to present limitations in almost 10 years.

The fact that classes still exist proves you wrong. The limitations of having each job be defined by their specific weapon is directly from that system. The job stones were an after-the-fact band aid on top of the class system to try and impose the trinity on a trinity-less system, and we are still using them. The old code and foundation is obviously still there, despite the complete 180 in design philosophy, which is why they are running into walls.

[Lihtleita]

The fact that classes still exist proves you wrong. .

the reason base classes still exist is because the devs dont want to redo 1-30 story quests

[Shurrikhan]

The fact that classes still exist proves you wrong. The limitations of having each job be defined by their specific weapon is directly from that system. The job stones were an after-the-fact band aid on top of the class system to try and impose the trinity on a trinity-less system, and we are still using them. The old code and foundation is obviously still there, despite the complete 180 in design philosophy, which is why they are running into walls.

Again, that system literally did not even affect your player level or skills. You simply had access to any and every skill you had unlocked across all classes, limited only in that true ranged attacks couldn't be used by melee weapons (even the inverse wasn't quite true). Technically "cross class" skills weren't even a thing; you just had a total bank of skills and grabbed the from whatever classes you liked. Wanted a party Pugilist tank? You could build that. (It was even largely meta on Ifrit since you could dodge magic but not block or parry it.) Solo pugilist survivalist? Drop some enmity skills for more self heals.

If you were a level 44 with an axe, you'd still be level 44 when you swapped to a bow. Your skill selection and hotbar would swap, and that was all. In the original system, you played a character, yourself, not a class. Swapping to classes of different levels (not merely proficiency ranks) by changing weapons already marked Yoshida's massive change to that original idea.

And let's not pretend that weapon types can't be shared within the current system. Until Heavenward, Gladiator still also used daggers. Both Conjurer and Thaumaturge use wands, canes, and staves. Both SMN and SCH use books. The distinction posed by weapon types is no more significant than the sheer aesthetic distinction one would want between the silhouettes of any two jobs even without (pseudo) class-specific weapon types.

[Mikey_R]

Until Heavenward, Gladiator still also used daggers.

I'm about 95% sure Gladiators lost the ability to use daggers on 2.4 release, having them all go to Rogues, with swords to replace the lost daggers. I did have a quick look and did not find anything in either the 2.4 patch nots or 3.0 patch notes to either confirm or deny the claim however.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm about 95% sure Gladiators lost the ability to use daggers on 2.4 release, having them all go to Rogues, with swords to replace the lost daggers. I did have a quick look and did not find anything in either the 2.4 patch nots or 3.0 patch notes to either confirm or deny the claim however.

Most, but not all, iirc, were replaced with NIN release, while some of the short swords to remain thereafter were still shorter than some of NIN's "knives".