14' s hunt for new jobs may be overlooking a simple solution.

[Elesh]

I've always been sad that the only archer option is freaking bard, but given how intrinsically tied weapons are to class identity/mechanics, I don't see myself ever getting the ACTUAL archer job I've always hoped for from this game. lol

[LeonKeyh]

why do we need new jobs? work on the old ones.

a new job will inevitably need to take skills from the current ones.

It's become an expectation and would likely cause a ton of problems if an expansion were to be announced without new jobs. I can see the forums now if an expansion were announced with "No new jobs"

"They decided to not give us any new jobs to focus on existing ones and what did we get? 2 ability upgrades and 1 "capstone" ability which is just 1 button we press once every 2 minutes."

"The newest expansion is yet another instance where we are just expected to be ok with receiving less and less content."

"No new jobs, no acknowledgement of ongoing healer concerns, and phoned in ability upgrades to existing jobs? Do the job designers exist anymore?"

I remember when Geomancer finally came out in FFXI and it was like.... black mage with an immobile AOE pet at first.

They've definitely gotten better at new class design, but I honestly don't expect to see more than one job in 7.0 and it'll likely be something that can use scouting gear.

Seems likely that the order is likely to be:

7.0 - Scouting Melee + Ranged Physical/Magical

Then from there, MAYBE one per expansion. If so I'd expect:

Tank
Ranged Magical/Physical (whichever wasn't introduced in 7.0)
Healer
Striking Melee



BUT, I suspect that they'll continue with 2 and double up in that same order. Tank + DPS then Healer + DPS.

[Elesh]

Let's be real Leon... no matter WHAT they do, the people who are gonna throw those types of quotes around are gonna complain. That's just how the internet works.

But I do think they'll stop doing 2 jobs per expansion soon. Possibly even next expansion.

[anhaato]

The #1 issue with the job system in this game wasn't the classes, it was everything being tied to your main weapon. The soul crystals would be a much better game design in theory if it let you change class by equipping it WITHOUT your main weapon, and letting you choose different main/off hands. They ALMOST had it right with one handed wands and shields for cnj and thm but they didn't pursue it enough. A samurai should have the option to equip a bow or a polearm for example. Dragoons should be able to use one handed spears and shields. Rangers (if only that actually existed) should have knife/dagger offhands. Bards should be able to use harps AND bows, not a strange mashup of the two.

Obviously there should be a characteristic weapon of each job, which would be present in its af gear, but other than that I want to see raid weapons like Asphodelos Bow [RNG BRD MCH SAM] or Edenmorn Knives [NIN RNG BRD DNC] for that sort of flexibility that FFXI had which made it possible for them to have so many damn jobs in there.

[Ransu]

The #1 issue with the job system in this game wasn't the classes, it was everything being tied to your main weapon. The soul crystals would be a much better game design in theory if it let you change class by equipping it WITHOUT your main weapon, and letting you choose different main/off hands. They ALMOST had it right with one handed wands and shields for cnj and thm but they didn't pursue it enough. A samurai should have the option to equip a bow or a polearm for example. Dragoons should be able to use one handed spears and shields. Rangers (if only that actually existed) should have knife/dagger offhands. Bards should be able to use harps AND bows, not a strange mashup of the two.

Obviously there should be a characteristic weapon of each job, which would be present in its af gear, but other than that I want to see raid weapons like Asphodelos Bow [RNG BRD MCH SAM] or Edenmorn Knives [NIN RNG BRD DNC] for that sort of flexibility that FFXI had which made it possible for them to have so many damn jobs in there.

FFXI didn't have flexibility though. It was use this weapon with this subjob or you're useless and can't be part of the party. If you rocked a sword and shield as a bard and didn't use the elemental staves you'd be immediately removed from the group.

[anhaato]

FFXI didn't have flexibility though. It was use this weapon with this subjob or you're useless and can't be part of the party. If you rocked a sword and shield as a bard and didn't use the elemental staves you'd be immediately removed from the group.

And? If some setups were optimal who cares? My point is that if someone wants to rock a bow in this game then brd shouldn't be the only option for that, and the presence of a weapon type linked to a job shouldn't prevent other jobs being introduced that would be able to use the same weapon. For a lot of people aesthetics matter more than optimization, and having optimal setups wouldn't get in the way of that for those sorts of people because they typically don't raid. It just needs to be viable for mid tier content at the very least.

[Xirean]

And? If some setups were optimal who cares? My point is that if someone wants to rock a bow in this game then brd shouldn't be the only option for that, and the presence of a weapon type linked to a job shouldn't prevent other jobs being introduced that would be able to use the same weapon. For a lot of people aesthetics matter more than optimization, and having optimal setups wouldn't get in the way of that for those sorts of people because they typically don't raid. It just needs to be viable for mid tier content at the very least.

If you made it so that classes can equip different weapons without having a meaningful distinction between them then people would be upset. Having the option to use different stuff goes in the direction of specs which can and has lead into what Ransu described. It's not a point to just ignore.

I would however like to say that I would agree being able to choose the aesthetic of your character in terms of weapons would be nice. I just think people would bitch about it if it didn't do something.

[Mikey_R]

The #1 issue with the job system in this game wasn't the classes, it was everything being tied to your main weapon. The soul crystals would be a much better game design in theory if it let you change class by equipping it WITHOUT your main weapon, and letting you choose different main/off hands. They ALMOST had it right with one handed wands and shields for cnj and thm but they didn't pursue it enough. A samurai should have the option to equip a bow or a polearm for example. Dragoons should be able to use one handed spears and shields. Rangers (if only that actually existed) should have knife/dagger offhands. Bards should be able to use harps AND bows, not a strange mashup of the two.

Obviously there should be a characteristic weapon of each job, which would be present in its af gear, but other than that I want to see raid weapons like Asphodelos Bow [RNG BRD MCH SAM] or Edenmorn Knives [NIN RNG BRD DNC] for that sort of flexibility that FFXI had which made it possible for them to have so many damn jobs in there.

And how would it work?

I give my Samurai a Bow, what happens to their actions? If they keep the same actions, how does the animation for things like the Iaijutsus, or Senei work? Then you have the problem of the AoEs and how they behave etc. If you give them different actions with all new visuals, well, wouldn't it then be better to just make a new job? especially when you have to start taking into account changing potencies to make up for a ranged Samurai.

I'm pretty sure that people would prefer a new job as opposed to using that time to make a ranged Samurai.

[anhaato]

I described what I perceived to be an inherent flaw with the baseline of job design, I know it's not something that can be patched in. I'm saying that the fact that weapons are rigidly split 1 weapon to 1 class leaves little room for aesthetic variance, and that's what's hurting the potential for future jobs to be added, and this is something that they CANNOT work around.

[NekoMataMata]

I've always been sad that the only archer option is freaking bard, but given how intrinsically tied weapons are to class identity/mechanics, I don't see myself ever getting the ACTUAL archer job I've always hoped for from this game. lol

What other form of archer can you imagine? I was really happy when I went from archer to bard because I knew machinist was in the game and it would've felt so weird in comparison.

Anyways, I know they don't want any split jobs but I really wish there was another job that evolved from rogue. Ninja is nice but at the same time it feels like it could've been something else completely. Some sort of other spy/stealth class.