Endwalker is the most controversial expansion

[anhaato]

Closed loops exist in reality as well. Time travel is theoretically possible, and it can’t violate causality, so a closed loop is all that it can be. Not to mention we’ve had a closed loop in 14 since HW. Why is it a problem now?

Like it wasn’t stupid as hell then? Lol people just didn’t have as much of an issue with it because it was self contained side content that didn’t affect the mandatory msq.

[EaraGrace]

Like it wasn’t stupid as hell then? Lol people just didn’t have as much of an issue with it because it was self contained side content that didn’t affect the mandatory msq.

I don’t think people had that much of a problem with it is what I’m saying. Not sure why now it’s an issue.

[Kazhar]

I don’t think people had that much of a problem with it is what I’m saying. Not sure why now it’s an issue.

Because it's used to explain major plot points in a story arc introduced 10 years ago instead of a minor thing?

It's all about context. People usually don't care about handwaved stuff and inconsistencies in side content like Hildibrand, but when the entire myth arc depends on it, it's a whole another story.

[Kolsykol]

Are you sure about that?

Shadowbringers had nearly no detractors. That Endwalker has plenty of critics, well. It should tell you something.

I remember a ton of drama going back as early as Heavensward, people do this every single time with every expansion it's an endless repeating cycle.
Every expansion is '' the worst and most controversial ever '' until the next expansion is out and then suddenly it wasn't so bad after all.
People have short-term memory.

People seriously need to play some other MMO's and get some actual perspective, the problems people ramp up as severe and controversial are so incredibly minor by comparison.
And there's so much over-dramatization of everything ( in the OP included ).
Much like on other websites and the reason why clickbait articles are so common place even if people say that they hate them.
It gets more likes and attention.
Ragebait and drama works.

I really don't see this kind of divison as is being described at all either outside of the same people on the forum ranting endlessly about it again and again and upvoting each other.
There's people on this forum who have 50-100 or even more negative threads alone.
On Reddit it's mostly memes, and there is also no way of even confirming who plays the game altogether.
It's the same on Twitter but you can't really judge these things accurately because it depends on who you follow/ don't follow.
But I dunno where all of this supposed negativity there is either.

I think that the truth is too that most people don't care about stuff like Kaiten being removed.
I don't think it's a good thing and I really hate the change too, and Yoshi-P actually did apologize for it and said that we should keep giving feedback on it and that they might revert it.
But this isn't some kind of a sky is falling scenario.
These are ultimately minor issues in the grand scheme of things, something that every expansion has had and will have that don't even affect a significant portion of the playerbase.

The narrative just never changes, people were flipping out about SHB all the time here and Heavensward had way worse balance issues and design decisions that people ranted endlessly about.
I actually enjoyed '' BRD mage '' but I still remember how mad people were about it, and as someone who played MNK from ARR to EW and swapped this expansion I've been around and remember how perpetually mad we've been about it lol.
These things happen all the time...
It's bound to happen because you have so many different people to please, not everything is going to make everyone happy and you'll mostly really hear from the people who are unhappy because those are the ones who take to the forums.
People who are happy are less likely to go and talk about it online, especially since most of this is really just venting for people and there is no reason to do that if you're happy.

I actually enjoy both Eureka and Bozja still but it's the same there too, people who hate/ hated them will be more noticeable.

[Iscah]

Good lord the time travel makes me want to bash my head into something. First it was a solid static loop with Alexander, then it was multiverse with Graha(which is fine, they're not mutually exclusive), then EW comes around looking all derpy with linear timeline!!!

And there was such an easier way to do it, the echo.

If the entirety of the Elpis story arc was presented through Echo flashbacks, that would be a huge amount of time spent watching a plot that does not involve us.

I think it was quite clever to have us directly go there, though it should have wrapped up more neatly with everyone including Venat losing their memory of us. (Meteion still needs to remember us, but she leaves before the wipe goes off.)

Also, I'm not sure why you're describing Alexander as a "static time loop" and Endwalker as a "linear timeline" as if those are different things. Both are equally stable time loops which by nature take place along a linear timeline.

I've previously put a lot of thought into resolving the mismatch between Alexander and Shadowbringers (which I don't think is full multiverse, just a single rare split only possible because a time traveller broke their own past), and Endwalker is consistent with the theory I had worked out for those earlier events.

I'll spare you the full essay this time, but the linear timeline along which a stable loop forms does not need to be the only timeline in existence. The Elpis time loop only involves our branch of the split timeline, and doesn't need to involve the Eighth Calamity timeline at all because what we did at Elpis remains part of the other timeline's history.

[Theodric]

I don't recall much in the way of backlash in response to Heavensward. It was heavily praised and most of the drama, I recall, was based around the long delay between 3.0 and 3.1.

Stormblood was a mixed bag though despite some finding it to be 'boring' it wasn't nearly as divisive as Endwalker proved to be. In no small part, I suspect, because it didn't try to justify the genocide of the Ala Mhigans or Domans. Meanwhile we have Endwalker which writes off a bunch of men, women and children and tries to present their genocide as the actions of a 'good person'. Weird!

Shadowbringers wasn't necessarily what people expected at the time, though it was widely praised for the most part.

Certainly, you can go back through any past expansion and find negative reactions but there's something of a perfect storm at play these days. Not only are we missing a planned expansion, the story - supposedly the bulk of focus in the game - has been compromised on many fronts. Then we add in tone deaf statements from the lead developer such as 'go play ultimate' in response to years worth of healer concerns, the prolonged mismanagement of player housing, the hyper focus on pleasing the Twitter sphere, Hrothgar hairstyles and various other factors...well, it becomes a bit too much even for many veteran players.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Why didn't they just have us use the already established Echo to experience a vision of Elpis instead of creating another convoluted time-travel plotline when ultimately physically going to Elpis was pointless when all we needed was information which we could've gotten just via a vision anyway.

Or wait, why not use those memory stones from Bozja storyline to physically enter a MEMORY rather than literally time traveling? Having us enter a memory physically would completely prevent any of the narrative problems that naturally arise from time travel and ultimately achieve the same intended goal.

[anhaato]

I remember a ton of drama going back as early as Heavensward, people do this every single time with every expansion it's an endless repeating cycle.
Every expansion is '' the worst and most controversial ever '' until the next expansion is out and then suddenly it wasn't so bad after all.
People have short-term memory.

So the game keeps getting worse is what you’re saying? Sounds to me like each expansion is more controversial than the last. I’ve already explained my rationale as to why I feel there’s more controversy this time around; YoshiP is having to defend himself over game changes more than ever before. He even had to go on live with Ishikawa for the first time ever to EXPLAIN THE STORY a couple months after it dropped. That’s unheard of! Like I said, I was only around at the tail end of SB so maybe I missed out on some serious shitstorms, but for the whole of ShB things were never this bad. More people are upset than ever before. Even if it’s a small number compared to other players who aren’t (vocally) upset that you say is being “dramatized” (explain how I dramatized it?) it’s still more than ever before.

[OhNooo]

Why didn't they just have us use the already established Echo to experience a vision of Elpis instead of creating another convoluted time-travel plotline when ultimately physically going to Elpis was pointless when all we needed was information which we could've gotten just via a vision anyway.

Or wait, why not use those memory stones from Bozja storyline to physically enter a MEMORY rather than literally time traveling? Having us enter a memory physically would completely prevent any of the narrative problems that naturally arise from time travel and ultimately achieve the same intended goal.

They could've just kept us with the transparent looking bodies and let us walk around and observe things as it happened.

[sorawild34]

Well this is the forums, so people tend to be in a different plane of existence most of the time in terms of a viewpoint on this game versus those that actually ignore the forums and play instead.

I'm not convinced facts even come into the equation here.

Most of the people who play the game dont even know these forums exist and those that do mostly just laugh at all the horrendous takes from afar