Endwalker is the most controversial expansion

[Lauront]

Good lord the time travel makes me want to bash my head into something. First it was a solid static loop with Alexander, then it was multiverse with Graha(which is fine, they're not mutually exclusive), then EW comes around looking all derpy with linear timeline!!!

And there was such an easier way to do it, the echo.

Yep, an established plot aspect, tying to the character's ancient soul, which would've made perfect sense to explore further in EW - nope, we need another, gloopy serving of time travel... with a side dish of memory wipes to go with it.

[Aluja89]

Yep, a well worn plot aspect, tying to the character's ancient soul, which would've made perfect sense to explore further in EW - nope, we need another, gloopy serving of time travel... with a side dish of memory wipes to go with it.

Especially since Elidibus can summon other WoLs, so all he had to do is tether our other reflections to us so the echo can remember that time. Appearance could be poked fun at by Hyth that Azem was fiddling with glamour magicks again, it almost writes itself.

[Silvarer]

Especially since Elidibus can summon other WoLs, so all he had to do is tether our other reflections to us so the echo can remember that time. Appearance could be poked fun at by Hyth that Azem was fiddling with glamour magicks again, it almost writes itself.

That makes no sense though. Elidibus was only able to summon people because he was using the Crystal Tower's power to do so. This is specifically said during Shadowbringers. And in Endwalker he says that since he's beginning to fade he no longer has complete access to the Tower and opening the portal is pretty much the last thing he's able to do. He's never had the ability to tether people together in whatever way you're thinking of and the Echo doesn't even work that way anyway.

[Aluja89]

That makes no sense though. Elidibus was only able to summon people because he was using the Crystal Tower's power to do so. This is specifically said during Shadowbringers. And in Endwalker he says that since he's beginning to fade he no longer has complete access to the Tower and opening the portal is pretty much the last thing he's able to do. He's never had the ability to tether people together in whatever way you're thinking of and the Echo doesn't even work that way anyway.

I never said he should summon our reflections, just tether them together for a brief moment so the echo can take effect, if he can send us back in time, he can do that as well.

I missed this earlier but then it got quoted above so I'm double-picking on you.

Elidibus says something to the effect that he isn't even fully summoning the souls of the heroes he draws to us – just, somehow, their desire to defeat evil and not the rest of them. (Best to not think too hard on the consequences of that for the rest of their soul, but hopefully Elidibus's death means that the splattered remnants of their aether gets restored to them, like the Exarch hoped his death would restore the Scions.)

There's no suggestion that he can "tether" souls to us at all, or a guarantee that he can find all the Azem pieces he would need to do so. And if he did, for all that we've seen the Echo can and cannot do, you'd still get their individual memories rather than their past life.

I hear you, but I just dislike time travel as a plot point out of nowhere. If the premise had something shouldering time travel it could be forgiven. As it stands I'm just trying to find anything conceivable and in the realm of possibilities.

However, whether there is a possibility of being connected to our other reflections or not is not the point. The echo is.

Edit: There is also Azem's crystal to use as a driving device.

[Silvarer]

I never said he should summon our reflections, just tether them together for a brief moment so the echo can take effect, if he can send us back in time, he can do that as well.

Tether them together how? You’re still proposing something that makes no sense and has never been shown to work the way you for some reason seem to think it does.

[Aluja89]

Tether them together how? You’re still proposing something that makes no sense and has never been shown to work the way you for some reason seem to think it does.

So? You realize it's all fiction right, there are no rules, if there were we wouldn't have the time travel junk. You're also not explaining why it wouldn't work, but if you really want a explanation. Ardbert exists within WoL, the moment he joined us Emet saw glimpses of Azem so that means joining together truly does form back to an ancient, so why couldn't Elidibus search the same frequency Azem's crystal emits through the Crystal Tower like a beacon towards the WoL for a brief moment?

[DPZ2]

So? You realize it's all fiction right, there are no rules, if there were we wouldn't have the time travel junk. You're also not explaining why it wouldn't work, but if you really want a explanation. Ardbert exists within WoL, the moment he joined us Emet saw glimpses of Azem so that means joining together truly does form back to an ancient, so why couldn't Elidibus search the same frequency Azem's crystal emits through the Crystal Tower like a beacon towards the WoL for a brief moment?

And yet there are people complaining about the time travel, even though there "are no rules". Having been exposed to science fiction and fantasy tropes for longer than most posters on these forums have been alive (also, longer than anime has been a viable media), the plot for Endwalker made sense to me. I was not expecting more than your typical MMORPG level of storyline, and was not disappointed.

It isn't classic literature. It isn't post-modern lit. It isn't The Circus of Dr. Lao, Dianetics, the Song of Songs, Pride and Prejudice, nor the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. I think Shakespeare might have appreciated the level of irony in the story, and Charles Dickens the level of pathos in the story. Then again, I really enjoyed reading John Crowley's Aegypt before it got retitled, and Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum.

A simple explanation about why tethering will never restore the full Warrior of Light/Azem: at least one part of that soul is gone forever thanks to the stupidity of the Unsundered. Or is it?

[Iscah]

Especially since Elidibus can summon other WoLs, so all he had to do is tether our other reflections to us so the echo can remember that time. Appearance could be poked fun at by Hyth that Azem was fiddling with glamour magicks again, it almost writes itself.

I missed this earlier but then it got quoted above so I'm double-picking on you.

Elidibus says something to the effect that he isn't even fully summoning the souls of the heroes he draws to us – just, somehow, their desire to defeat evil and not the rest of them. (Best to not think too hard on the consequences of that for the rest of their soul, but hopefully Elidibus's death means that the splattered remnants of their aether gets restored to them, like the Exarch hoped his death would restore the Scions.)

There's no suggestion that he can "tether" souls to us at all, or a guarantee that he can find all the Azem pieces he would need to do so. And if he did, for all that we've seen the Echo can and cannot do, you'd still get their individual memories rather than their past life.