Yoshi P? Your bias is showing

[Sililos]

Meanwhile DNC be like: "Fan Dance got 1000 more potency? Oh. nope, enemy HP bar still didn't move."
"Maybe with the 20% defense boost I will survive more than 2 seconds in Honing dance.... nope, died just as quickly and still did no damage."

Seriously, can Dancers PLEASE get a REAL damage boost? Yeah i know, we are supposed to be buffing everyone else but that just doesn't work in PvP! Especially Crystal Conflict! There's no coordinating and your dance partner is always too far away or dead.

The only thing DNC is good for is diving in, getting everyone to pop their cooldowns on them and then hoping your team take that advantage instead of standing around with vacant stares while you sigh waiting out the rez timer!

I feel like the job is 'forgotten' most the time by SE and when they do do something, its a token gesture that makes no real difference.

[Nytes]

Meanwhile DNC be like: "Fan Dance got 1000 more potency? Oh. nope, enemy HP bar still didn't move."
"Maybe with the 20% defense boost I will survive more than 2 seconds in Honing dance.... nope, died just as quickly and still did no damage."

Seriously, can Dancers PLEASE get a REAL damage boost? Yeah i know, we are supposed to be buffing everyone else but that just doesn't work in PvP! Especially Crystal Conflict! There's no coordinating and your dance partner is always too far away or dead.

The only thing DNC is good for is diving in, getting everyone to pop their cooldowns on them and then hoping your team take that advantage instead of standing around with vacant stares while you sigh waiting out the rez timer!

I feel like the job is 'forgotten' most the time by SE and when they do do something, its a token gesture that makes no real difference.

::Laughs in Bard::

[Lymberey]

I do not think that it is a massive overbuff, most of it are QoL buffs which sorely needed.

Almost the same AoE power, just more bursty on individual target. 10k on primary is enough i think, the rest is quite good.

If they want to reduce the potency down to 8k, they better buff Astral Fire up, a lot or increase the radius of Flare and Freeze.

[aeoncs]

Lol at people saying that this isn't a huge overbuff. There are 2 BLMs in 4/5 Crystal-ranked games now - played a few games myself and watched several streams yesterday - and for good reason. It's the strongest solo carry in the game now and honestly makes RDM and NIN look tame in comparison. When any job deals up to 1,3 mil damage in a regular 5 minute game (highest I've seen thus far) in high elo, you have a problem, and that's not even mentioning the added control and utility it now offers on top of that.

All these cries about the buff to BLM from people who did not play BLM at all..

Still, every minute, the MNK can stun chain and kill the BLM instantly as purify doesn't work, with 20 seconds resurrection and 10 seconds to enter the fight again. 30 sec and MNK jumps again on the BLM and delete it because Purify do not protect from the second stun removing the first one and the full combo do more than 48k DMG.

There are games that are unplayable for BLM, at least now I can hope for the 15 seconds 20% damage reduction to be enough to avoid they doing more than 48k dmg..

And no, I don't think MNK is overpowered, is just Purify is broken, MNK could even get a buff, but right now is annoying to get combo'ed every minute and 30 seconds out of combat

If a MNK continuously solo kills you as a BLM... this is 100% a you-issue now. With the added shields from Burst and the 20% damage reduction during Soul Resonance (which is just as spammable as Meteodrive), you should be able to survive the LB combo and then casually demolish the MNK.

Also, the Enlightenment -> Meteodrive combo is working as intended, Purify isn't supposed to protect you from it. If you Purify the stun and time it right, you can absolutely get in a Recuperate immediately as Enlightenment hits btw - so anyone can survive the combo if they have Purify available. It's not super easy to do but not incredibly hard either. You can also Purify the stun and immediately Guard.

In team / coordinated play Meteodrive is completely busted but there are several ways to counter it in solo queue, especially considering that most MNKs don't communicate to their team who they're going to LB and go completely lone wolf.
And if you're a <51k health job and walk in range of an LB-ready MNK without Purify, shields and/or damage reduction, then that's 100% on you.

[Nanne]

When any job deals up to 1,3 mil damage in a regular 5 minute game

I have seen 1,7 million in a regular non overtime 5 minute match

[aeoncs]

I have seen 1,7 million in a regular non overtime 5 minute match

Yikes. That's brutal.

[Esmoire]

I really don't think it's a situation of like... Yoshi-P wanting his job to be stronger. I am sure the battle system designers make the adjustments based on data. Honestly the guy is too busy for something relatively petty.

That said, while the new PvP mode has nary been out a few months, so far what we have seen from the PvP team with the 6.1 specs has my confidence low. I will give them more time to prove themselves with later patches, but so far it seems they know they should address what their data tells them, but they don't know how.

[Gserpent]

Meanwhile DNC be like: "Fan Dance got 1000 more potency? Oh. nope, enemy HP bar still didn't move."
"Maybe with the 20% defense boost I will survive more than 2 seconds in Honing dance.... nope, died just as quickly and still did no damage."

Seriously, can Dancers PLEASE get a REAL damage boost? Yeah i know, we are supposed to be buffing everyone else but that just doesn't work in PvP! Especially Crystal Conflict! There's no coordinating and your dance partner is always too far away or dead.

The only thing DNC is good for is diving in, getting everyone to pop their cooldowns on them and then hoping your team take that advantage instead of standing around with vacant stares while you sigh waiting out the rez timer!

I feel like the job is 'forgotten' most the time by SE and when they do do something, its a token gesture that makes no real difference.

I'm pretty sure DNC will be fine in competitive team play. But by time we get team ranked, they might have over-buffed DNC's competitors (BRD being the most obvious) to the point that DNC really is pointless.

I still don't understand why BRD got buffs. BRD was completely fine. It's like the damage buff to Macrocosmos - *why*?

[Bureda]

Some DoTs were always good, borderline busted.

RDM melee combo being able to just straight kill by itself because of the ludicrous DoT ticks (thankfully toned down)

NIN Goka having high potency and being able to snapshotted with Mug/Bunshin to absolutely wreck health bars (this is the real OP of NIN kit but people far too focused on Death Link and Hyosho Ranryu)

MCH DoT hitting like a truck and now does more so

Slipstream and SCH DoTs were kinda meh as far as that goes as is Salted Earth as far as damage per tick goes.

Slipstream however is incredibly obnoxious in frontline due to their usually being a pack of SMNs spamming it, now that's going to be even worse.

I'm actually in the rare position of thinking this is mostly a decent patch, some questionable balance decisions around SMN/BLM/MCH, however giving more kill pressure means zerg melee tactics should be less prominent and changes the CC target priorities around quite a fair bit.

And at last, Deep Sleep isn't entirely useless!!

What? Pretty sure Thunder + bunshing + mug will deal much much much more damage than the dot. Nin dots are pretty pathetic and their direct single target isn't even top. Literally every other melee can do more burst than Nin. Stealth is also garbage in ff14 for it actually be reliable.

[Gserpent]

What? Pretty sure Thunder + bunshing + mug will deal much much much more damage than the dot. Nin dots are pretty pathetic and their direct single target isn't even top. Literally every other melee can do more burst than Nin. Stealth is also garbage in ff14 for it actually be reliable.

Goka total damage is 20k (4k initial plus 4 ticks of 4k each), vs 16k for Hyosho. Mug would increase both by 10%, regardless. You use Hyosho when you need burst, you use Goka when you don't (or when the other is sealed and you want to use both.)

Stealth sucks for actually escaping, but it lasts long enough to get the Assassinate off pretty much no matter what, and Shukuchi is still a long ranged point-target movement tool regardless of the stealth. The stealth will still break targeting, too. You mostly only use Hide for initiating, not escaping, due to the "Vanish bug" issue. But it's fine, Shukuchi would probably actually need to be nerfed to 20 or 25 sec if Hide was actually reliable for escaping.

You are correct that NIN has the lowest damage of any melee, though. It's why they're so slippery and have such a versatile kit - you're trading raw power for versatility. It's also why it's so important that their ultimate has the Execute function - NIN actually lacks kill potential without it.