Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Absimiliard]

Consider for a moment also how the shards were originally evenly spread - or at least as close to evenly spread as Venat could manage. We know there were some... errors, but that's a discussion for another thread. Since every shard began with essentially the same aetheric density and its inhabitants similar physical forms, it stands to reason even multiple rejoinings would not change the differences in physical parameters. Aetheric density is what rejoinings appear to improve, and we've already seen how little that actually matters most of the time.

As an aside, I might note the WoL is in fact holding back 99.9% of the time. Even against most primals.

[Cleretic]

As an aside, I might note the WoL is in fact holding back 99.9% of the time. Even against most primals.

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

[Dikatis]

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

The only thing I can remember is Ysayle mentioning that seeing WoL battle Ravana is the first time she's seen WoL bring their all to bear since their battle at Akh Afah Ampitheatre. Which speaks much more about the idea of breaking your limits via dynamis than WoL purposefully holding back even in life-or-death situations.

Never since we first fought have I seen you draw upon the full extent of your power...and never from afar till this day. You were a marvel to behold, [Player Name]. Well...'tis time we rejoined our companions. They will be eager to hear the tale...and to continue our journey.

[Vyrerus]

The only thing I can remember is Ysayle mentioning that seeing WoL battle Ravana is the first time she's seen WoL bring their all to bear since their battle at Akh Afah Ampitheatre. Which speaks much more about the idea of breaking your limits via dynamis than WoL purposefully holding back even in life-or-death situations.

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

[Cleretic]

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

...you were right on most of that post, but you blew it with that last paragraph. I don't think the WoL is ever not trying, because that brings in the same problem; if the WoL was half-assing it in the Vault, then it's their fault Haurchefaunt died, and that doesn't sound like the character we know.

What I take that line to mean is, yes, that the WoL doesn't hold back against Ravana (or Shiva). That's not the same as not trying any other times; in fact, that might be trying even harder. I hate comparing the WoL to Superman, but he's the character that's had this explored a few times, how he constantly has to be careful to make sure he doesn't kill anyone. But realistically this is closer to how Batman or Green Arrow handle; frankly it would probably be easier for them to go in for the kill, but they make the effort not to. In fact, remember that in the time Ysayle was traveling with us at that point, we'd mostly just fought wild animals for their meat, and the gnath; the former we are DEFINITELY being more careful about because we needed some good cuts from, and the gnath aren't exactly a physically robust people. Ravana's probably the only time since our fight with her that she's actually seen us go for the no-holds-barred kill, and that's mostly because she hadn't seen us doing much.

You don't have to worry about surviving materials or collateral damage with a primal, and in that brief time she'd been traveling with us at that point, Ravana was the first time we weren't worrying about that.

[Iscah]

...you were right on most of that post, but you blew it with that last paragraph. I don't think the WoL is ever not trying, because that brings in the same problem

I think it's just a manner of speech. Of course the WoL puts in effort, but average beasts don't take much effort for them.

Also, Haurchefant's death is partly because (I suspect) it likely happened very fast and was slowed down on screen for drama, and partly because we just have been giving our all against a small army and three demi-primals. We're not at full battery and it happens too quick for us to react, let alone muster up any dynamis-driven emotional strength.

[Vyrerus]

you blew it

Well, the context for the WoL barely trying is, "Swings sword at full strength one time." Rather than, "Swing sword at full strength 240 times."

We are always acting with our full power behind everything, but this is a game where the challenging stuff takes time (more swings).

Also, all it would take for us to get good cuts of meat from an animal is decapitating the animal or crushing its head. Also what Iscah said.

[Absimiliard]

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

The first source I would cite is Ysayle, who by that point has seen the WoL engaging numerous seemingly very powerful enemies. She outright says she hasn't seen us bring our all to bear since we fought her. Granted, she missed quite a few fights between, but the battles she did witness the WoL take part in were of a nature that should have warranted a fair bit of exertion. The Scions have also had a few quips to that extent of their own, one even having taken place as late as Shadowbringers. Were I not at work I'd go dig up the exact quote. My third point of reference: "Breaking limits as only a true Warrior of Light can." This buff is gained only in situations where extreme effort is supposed to be required. Many of these occasions do not entail emotions running high on the WoL's part.

The above said, I do believe you're taking things to a bit of an extreme. Holding back is not the same as being able to immediately overcome every challenge on one's own. We've already seen the WoL's full strength being brought to bear on numerous occasions, and it usually isn't the kind of thing that will allow you to straight up solo an army or slap Bismarck out of the sky (in lore, anyway; at this point I'm convinced three of the four tanks are mechanically capable of it rofl). At any rate, holding back is something we all do. It isn't a conscious choice in most situations, but it can be. The WoL, like any other mortal, would burn out and die very quickly if they marched into every battle running at 100%.

The deal with Ran'jit, though... I think we can all agree that was just bad writing and decision making. Even someone as experienced as him should not have been able to put up that much of a fight, though I suppose it's somewhat made up for by how comically weak he is the last time you fight him. It wasn't exactly the most ideal way of showing that we had to "learn how" to fight him. Dude goes from being non-threatening outside of a forced down for the count to getting absolutely steamrolled.