NIN changes changed nothing, and that's why they shouldn't exist

[butchersblock]

I definitely agree on Raijus not adding a whole lot to Ninja. If anything, they ruined our two-target rotation - rip Katon/Doton - but provide a bit of extra mobility. Which, as we all know, Ninja historically has lacked. /s


I'd be more happy to lose a Ninki gainer if the entire way Ninki worked was overhauled in some way to add a bit more nuance. Right now it's just 'spend on Bunshin if it's up, otherwise Bhava/Frog'. Without bigger changes, though... mm

This entire tier + ultimate up to 2nd Thordan I've barely ever found a use for the gapcloser Raiju over just sprinting or using the buffed Shukuchi which is the best gapclose tool in the game by a longshot. Its animation over the non gapcloser one is also pretty lackluster, overall pretty disappointed with Raijus.

[aloneatsea]

This entire tier + ultimate up to 2nd Thordan I've barely ever found a use for the gapcloser Raiju over just sprinting or using the buffed Shukuchi which is the best gapclose tool in the game by a longshot. Its animation over the non gapcloser one is also pretty lackluster, overall pretty disappointed with Raijus.

I do really like the Raijus in concept -- like, hell yeah, a big electric dash ala Chidori. The implementation, however... I mean, yeah, it does feel kinda superfluous. There's no fight out there which has me using Shukuchi on cooldown, because not every class is as mobile as Ninja. This is fine, but adding additional mobility just feels like a waste.

I wonder if the Raiju concept couldn't be reworked into something a bit more useful. As of now, we have two Raiju skills, only one of which ever really gets used. While I do like having a different GCD to press, Shadowfang used to fill that role.

Thinking about it, I wonder if spicing up our GCDs could fix the Ninki generation issue? A dot applicator combo finisher ala old Shadowfang which maybe generates only 10 Ninki instead of 15. Who knows.

The fact that they're attached to your Raitons, too, feels a tad painful. I suppose we have Phantom for disconnects now, but it hurts knowing you're losing out so much more than in Shadowbringers if you need to Raiton out of Trick to keep uptime. Not just because of Raijus, either. The increased personal damage is a bit more punishing in that regard.

[butchersblock]

The fact that they're attached to your Raitons, too, feels a tad painful. I suppose we have Phantom for disconnects now, but it hurts knowing you're losing out so much more than in Shadowbringers if you need to Raiton out of Trick to keep uptime. Not just because of Raijus, either. The increased personal damage is a bit more punishing in that regard.

Honestly call me a boomer but I really don't think Ninja needs any more ranged options than it currently has. I really enjoyed working for uptime in Shadowbringers, it was a core part of raiding that made it enjoyable past the initial prog. 6.2 is gonna make or break the game for me. If neither Ninja nor Samurai get changes for the better and on top of that we get another tier where there's no downtime (or very little forced RNG downtime that you can't get around by just playing better) I'll stop playing the game.

[aloneatsea]

Honestly call me a boomer but I really don't think Ninja needs any more ranged options than it currently has. I really enjoyed working for uptime in Shadowbringers, it was a core part of raiding that made it enjoyable past the initial prog. 6.2 is gonna make or break the game for me. If neither Ninja nor Samurai get changes for the better and on top of that we get another tier where there's no downtime (or very little forced RNG downtime that you can't get around by just playing better) I'll stop playing the game.

Ninja definitely has more than enough ranged options at the moment. I distinctly recall clearing a while back -- people couldn't agree on the strat to use for P4SP2 Act IV -- full melee uptime (harder) or melee downtime (much easier). I ended up suggesting we go with the downtime strat, after realising it was actually full uptime for me. Phantom + Suiton, and I could easily greed a max-melee Aeolian while moving. It's part of why I love Ninja, but if they're going to give us even more ranged options, they might as well change us to be physical ranged.

[butchersblock]

Ninja definitely has more than enough ranged options at the moment. I distinctly recall clearing a while back -- people couldn't agree on the strat to use for P4SP2 Act IV -- full melee uptime (harder) or melee downtime (much easier). I ended up suggesting we go with the downtime strat, after realising it was actually full uptime for me. Phantom + Suiton, and I could easily greed a max-melee Aeolian while moving. It's part of why I love Ninja, but if they're going to give us even more ranged options, they might as well change us to be physical ranged.

I liked situationally having more ranged options by lining up Suiton for it, but PK is a bit much. I won't crusade against PK, though I personally would prefer if it were a melee GCD instead.

[aloneatsea]

I liked situationally having more ranged options by lining up Suiton for it, but PK is a bit much. I won't crusade against PK, though I personally would prefer if it were a melee GCD instead.

I actually prefer PK, on the grounds of it being much more punishing to use Raiton outside of Trick nowadays. Using PK outside of Trick is a very tiny loss (for odd tricks -- you wouldn't use it in even tricks anyway), but sacrificing a Raiton + Raiju outside of Trick/Mug windows is up to a 190~ potency loss. That's almost a whole Spinning Edge!

[butchersblock]

I actually prefer PK, on the grounds of it being much more punishing to use Raiton outside of Trick nowadays. Using PK outside of Trick is a very tiny loss (for odd tricks -- you wouldn't use it in even tricks anyway), but sacrificing a Raiton + Raiju outside of Trick/Mug windows is up to a 190~ potency loss. That's almost a whole Spinning Edge!

I just personally like higher risk. Feels more rewarding to me.