Is the "One Steppe at a Time V" achievement reward a bit cruel to put up?

[Gserpent]

Every kill is 8 points your way and 8 points taken away from them. It doesn't matter who gets the final hit, so long as the person dies. Kills are an accurate assessment of impact on the final score. NIN is particularly noteworthy because many of NIN's kills will not have happened otherwise because it's a chained execution move. Good timing can result in NIN killing several people that might otherwise have been able to escape.

Acting like individual performance doesn't matter in FL is completely, totally false and is basically something regurgitated by people that want to feel better about their losses. Play strong classes and play well and you will win more games than you lose. I've lost like 3 of the past 12 games. NIN gives you an enormous amount of control over the direction of the game because it's so strong in FL.

[Apeman]

I never meant kills don't matter i meant bragging about individual kills numbers isn't impressive because it just means you landed the killshot while some was getting beat down by numerous people. Where you that lucky person? Here's a kill on your scorecard while everyone else gets an assist.

Does individual performance matter in FL? Sure, but does it have much impact on the overall match? No. One player no matter how good they think they are will not determine how well the team does. The mode is all about moving together and having more people then the other team at nodes when they spawn to win battles and reading the map to determine good times to pinch the other teams. Winning 9 out of 12 matches does not mean you were a huge influence on winning, it just means your team probably moved together and performed better as a team.

[Gserpent]

I never meant kills don't matter i meant bragging about individual kills numbers isn't impressive because it just means you landed the killshot while some was getting beat down by numerous people. Where you that lucky person? Here's a kill on your scorecard while everyone else gets an assist.

Does individual performance matter in FL? Sure, but does it have much impact on the overall match? No. One player no matter how good they think they are will not determine how well the team does. The mode is all about moving together and having more people then the other team at nodes when they spawn to win battles and reading the map to determine good times to pinch the other teams. Winning 9 out of 12 matches does not mean you were a huge influence on winning, it just means your team probably moved together and performed better as a team.

I get where you're coming from, but if the difference between #1 and #2 is 200 points, and your kills minus deaths account for 160 of those points, that very clearly indicates that you had a substantial impact on the results.

[Apeman]

I get where you're coming from, but if the difference between #1 and #2 is 200 points, and your kills minus deaths account for 160 of those points, that very clearly indicates that you had a substantial impact on the results.

Not at all. Those kills could have easily been given to someone else if they landed the killshot. I've lost games going 12k 1d and then i've won games going 2k 2d. Players with really high k/d ratio are just usually on the good teams that run together and and focus down enemies. A good player on a good team may be able to push that team into a win in a very rare circumstance but a good player on a bad team will almost never have an impact. Regardless people should always be trying their best and learn the modes but after doing as much FL as i have i see to many poor players who don't seem to grasp strategy of the mode or just flat out ignore callouts and teamwork due to being new or just not caring.

[Gserpent]

Not at all. Those kills could have easily been given to someone else if they landed the killshot. I've lost games going 12k 1d and then i've won games going 2k 2d. Players with really high k/d ratio are just usually on the good teams that run together and and focus down enemies. A good player on a good team may be able to push that team into a win in a very rare circumstance but a good player on a bad team will almost never have an impact. Regardless people should always be trying their best and learn the modes but after doing as much FL as i have i see to many poor players who don't seem to grasp strategy of the mode or just flat out ignore callouts and teamwork due to being new or just not caring.

"Basically AFK" is a big problem in FL right now because of the GARO event """forcing""" people to PvP. It's always been a pain point due to "just here for the XP" attitude but it's worse right now.

That said, keep in mind that NIN is a guaranteed kill at 49% or less HP. There are many, many cases where NIN kills someone that likely would not have died otherwise. It's also possible for the target to die during the animation, in which case the kill doesn't go to the NIN. Same is true for SAM executing multiple people with their LB - those are kills that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.

[gioroggia]

Not every thing in the game needs to be a consolation prize, especially in PVP. Work for your rewards and then feel the satisfaction of getting over those losses and reeling in those wins.

I would agree except that Frontlines is... Well... Frontlines. Each player contributes very little to the end results, the jobs are extremely unbalanced in the mode, and 80% of the people there are just in for the roulette exp and don't care about trying to win. So... It is always a consolation prize, the only difference is whether you are lucky and it comes quickly or unlucky and it takes ages to materialize.

That, or make a 4-man all-summoner premade through a PvP discord server to boost your win rate. But then it is hardly your own merit.

So I don't think this talk of "consolation prize" applies to the achievement OP is discussing. It's not like the current achievement relies much on the player's skills and merits anyway.

[Liam_Harper]

I would agree except that Frontlines is... Well... Frontlines. Each player contributes very little to the end results

I have to agree with that. Normally I'd be fine with achievements where you have to succeed to earn them, but in a 72 man you're very much rolling the dice each time. As an individual you don't really earn it through your own ability as a player.

It's basically already a participation prize, just more like "participate in roughly 200-400 games and we'll give you the achievement somewhere along the line based on your luck". No reason not to set it to a flat 300.

[Gserpent]

I would agree except that Frontlines is... Well... Frontlines. Each player contributes very little to the end results, the jobs are extremely unbalanced in the mode, and 80% of the people there are just in for the roulette exp and don't care about trying to win. So... It is always a consolation prize, the only difference is whether you are lucky and it comes quickly or unlucky and it takes ages to materialize.

That, or make a 4-man all-summoner premade through a PvP discord server to boost your win rate. But then it is hardly your own merit.

So I don't think this talk of "consolation prize" applies to the achievement OP is discussing. It's not like the current achievement relies much on the player's skills and merits anyway.

Individual players can make substantial contributions to the game. You can't carry a game all by yourself, but four players coordinating can absolutely tip the scales in a substantial way.

SMN isn't as good as you believe it to be, by the way. They have basically nothing to contribute to fights between Bahamut summons, and you can easily just guard through Bahamut anyhow.

[gioroggia]

Individual players can make substantial contributions to the game. You can't carry a game all by yourself, but four players coordinating can absolutely tip the scales in a substantial way.

SMN isn't as good as you believe it to be, by the way. They have basically nothing to contribute to fights between Bahamut summons, and you can easily just guard through Bahamut anyhow.

Individually you mean next to nothing to the end results even if you're highly skilled. And, like I said, if to actually make a difference you need to be in a 4-man premade, then it is not really your own skill that affects your win rate. It is the fact that you have three people willing to play frontlines with you. That's fine, no problem there. But it doesn't make the achievement "merit-based", since it is not really your skill tipping the scales in your favor, it is the fact that your team likely has one more premade than the other teams. That's what I mean.

About summoner... Well, all you have to do to settle this is look at at the stats at the end of the game. Summoner and Scholar tend to have far more damage than any other job - it's not even close - with the difference that Scholar's damage does not translate into enemy deaths nearly as often as Summoner's damage does. Sure, other jobs can contribute. Scholar itself has useful buffs, WHM heals a ton and has useful CC, Dragoon can deal a fair amount of damage and then back away into safety, DRK/PLD can jump in attracting enemy attention then pop their immune tools... Etc. But Summoner is just a tier above in FF and that will not change anytime soon because balance will be based around CC, and on CC they're not nearly as good.

[Gserpent]

Individually you mean next to nothing to the end results even if you're highly skilled. And, like I said, if to actually make a difference you need to be in a 4-man premade, then it is not really your own skill that affects your win rate. It is the fact that you have three people willing to play frontlines with you. That's fine, no problem there. But it doesn't make the achievement "merit-based", since it is not really your skill tipping the scales in your favor, it is the fact that your team likely has one more premade than the other teams. That's what I mean.

About summoner... Well, all you have to do to settle this is look at at the stats at the end of the game. Summoner and Scholar tend to have far more damage than any other job - it's not even close - with the difference that Scholar's damage does not translate into enemy deaths nearly as often as Summoner's damage does. Sure, other jobs can contribute. Scholar itself has useful buffs, WHM heals a ton and has useful CC, Dragoon can deal a fair amount of damage and then back away into safety, DRK/PLD can jump in attracting enemy attention then pop their immune tools... Etc. But Summoner is just a tier above in FF and that will not change anytime soon because balance will be based around CC, and on CC they're not nearly as good.

I have literally won games by fewer points than my Kills minus Deaths earned us. That's not saying that "I'm why we won!" but you could certainly argue that we might not have won if I hadn't been playing that well.

Summoner is completely fine, dude. Megaflare is only 18k damage, Akh Morn is only 12k, and SMN has basically zero impact between Bahamut summonings. If you want to cheese with a 4-man group, you should all play WHM. Four lasers cast together on the same location will instantly kill anything they hit and four people coordinating usage of poly can be very, very effective.

For solo play, AST is very strong because, well... it's AST. NIN and BRD are also very strong choices.