Frontlines needs help. Crowd Control is insane, Limit Breaks are to powerful.

[LowIQ]

Frontline in its current state is the most entertaining it has ever been. Sure it is broken if multiple People go SMN or so to cheese stuff, but i rather take that over the healspam BS without any CC before 6.1 any day of the week.

Do you think Square had the same griefer mentality when they came up with their genius revamp? Were they like "Let's see how we can make people feel as miserable as possible"?
Before 6.1 you could actually play the game. There was a lot of freedom in how you could play and what you could attempt to do. You were almost encouraged to engage people and actually play the game of PVP.
But what we have now is completely anti-game. You will be punished if you attempt to make any kind of move. And by punished I mean deleted in the most miserable and unfun way. It's not fun regardless whether you are on the receiving or the giving end. Killing people who can't even fight back feels like complete shit.

But I guess some people might like this, it's true. Like you wait for your LB bar to fill then you click some poor guy 50y away and bam, he's gone. Hell yeah. Player versus Player, damn right.

[Anhra]

Do you think Square had the same griefer mentality when they came up with their genius revamp? Were they like "Let's see how we can make people feel as miserable as possible"?
Before 6.1 you could actually play the game. There was a lot of freedom in how you could play and what you could attempt to do. You were almost encouraged to engage people and actually play the game of PVP.
But what we have now is completely anti-game. You will be punished if you attempt to make any kind of move. And by punished I mean deleted in the most miserable and unfun way. It's not fun regardless whether you are on the receiving or the giving end. Killing people who can't even fight back feels like complete shit.

But I guess some people might like this, it's true. Like you wait for your LB bar to fill then you click some poor guy 50y away and bam, he's gone. Hell yeah. Player versus Player, damn right.

You do your name justice if you genuinely and unironically defend pre 6.1 PvP.

Before the revamp, PvP was literally dead and Frontline was and somewhat still is, mostly played just for the exp. Unlike before, small scale fights are now not a endless drag of healing shenanigans and healers arent almost unkillable demigods anymore.

PvP should be by nature quick natured as well as having multiple methods to influence combat itself. Dying is a normal thing to happen, especially in Frontline. Only someone who knows how to position himself well, will rarely ever die and victory is even then, never taken for granted.
Old PvP had only the straight forward approach in mind, Jobs were balanced arround Roles and all of them had very little to offer when it came to CC, proper debuffs, and utility. And to make it worse, it was ONLY about damage. Damage is important, but it should never be the only driving force to turn a Game arround.

What i think, is that People like you are by nature unfit to do PvP from a mental perspective and thats okay, it isnt everyones cup of tea. PvP content in MMORPGs are unforgiving in nature and if you really want to succeed in a enviroment that allows you to approach things from multiple angles, all i will ever say, is to think outside the Box that is called meta.

[Kiao-Ken]

You do your name justice if you genuinely and unironically defend pre 6.1 PvP.

Before the revamp, PvP was literally dead and Frontline was and somewhat still is, mostly played just for the exp. Unlike before, small scale fights are now not a endless drag of healing shenanigans and healers arent almost unkillable demigods anymore.

PvP should be by nature quick natured as well as having multiple methods to influence combat itself. Dying is a normal thing to happen, especially in Frontline. Only someone who knows how to position himself well, will rarely ever die and victory is even then, never taken for granted.
Old PvP had only the straight forward approach in mind, Jobs were balanced arround Roles and all of them had very little to offer when it came to CC, proper debuffs, and utility. And to make it worse, it was ONLY about damage. Damage is important, but it should never be the only driving force to turn a Game arround.

What i think, is that People like you are by nature unfit to do PvP from a mental perspective and thats okay, it isnt everyones cup of tea. PvP content in MMORPGs are unforgiving in nature and if you really want to succeed in a enviroment that allows you to approach things from multiple angles, all i will ever say, is to think outside the Box that is called meta.

For perspective, I started playing early Feb of this year and before Crystalline Conflict update and the whole revamp of the pvp abilities and LB, I had fun, so much that all I would do as a newbie in this game is pvp, I pvp-ed so much that I ended up accumulating 4.7k-ish kills pre-patch so thats like 2 months and a half and getting kills wasn't that easy back then. LowIQ has a point, this revamp was completely unnecessary when they could've devoted that time to simply make some changes to what was actually working for example, physical range and magical dps would've benefitted having the Dragoon's Elusive Jump ability. Back then, it took some level of skill to kill enemies, knowing when to engage and disengage as a melee dps or a tank. But now, every fight is mainly dictated by who has more "meta" classes like: White Mage, Red Mage, Summoner, Warrior, Scholars (biolysis). Back then, I was able to bait others cause I would purposely be within 30-40% health, but now, can't even do that cause of some weebja (ninja) would just LB me, insta kill me, and they'll keep they're LB. Lots of Crowd Control should never, ever be the solution to this "quick fights" that you're talking about, they've should introduced Stamina Bar where it acts like Purify, for example: I get CC'ed, I use Purify, it consumes 2500-3000 stamina out of 10k (like mana bar) to break free from Crowd Control (to include polymorph) and granting 3 seconds of CC immunity. And getting CC'ed while mounted is by far, the most BS thing you could experience.

Frontlines PvP, or simply FF14 PvP pales in comparison to Cyrodiil (a PvP map where it's 3 factions against each other, can easily be 48+ vs 48+ vs 48+ on one map, Elder Scrolls Online), it pales in comparison to Black Desert PvP, it pales in comparison to Planetside2 (Planetside2 is the nuttiest of them all, 3 factions against each other, combined arms meaning there's infantry, ground vehicles and air vehicles, all players, no loading screen when on map and it can be 96+ vs 96+ vs 96+ in one base on a continent with multiple bases on that continent, and theres so much more) (and there are players complaining about FF14 frontline pvp being 24 vs 24 vs 24 lol), it pales in comparison to Runescape PvP(before Evolution of Combat, no, not OSRS)(Ice Barrage is a 15 second Bind, only way to get out is to kill the caster, they run away too far or you simply teleport away). And it's not a what you think, quote "What i think, is that People like you are by nature unfit to do PvP from a mental perspective and thats okay, it isnt everyones cup of tea. PvP content in MMORPGs are unforgiving in nature and if you really want to succeed in a enviroment that allows you to approach things from multiple angles, all i will ever say, is to think outside the Box that is called meta." this is such a bad take to the situation that Square Enix has went when they revamped PvP with this "Crystalline Conflict" update. It's so boring, no skills required other than knowing when to LB, when to use Rend as a Warrior or Polymorph as a White Mage. It's absolutely pathetic that I have lost the "thrill" of PvPing in this game even though Feast was dead when I joined the game.

Lots of players are losing this "hype" of "revamped PvP skills" and they are starting to realize how stupid all these LBs are and how stupid all this Crowd Control is, and it's going to get worst when the "hype" dies down, making Crystalline Conflict dead, like Feast, when I joined. My "The Hand of Mercy" title was for naught, and I'm on the verge of unsubbing (no, this isn't "change it back or I unsubb" ultimatum) because PvP in here is pathetic now. And then there's the cheaters, but I'll leave it at that.

*Note* Pre-patch, on average I would get 9-13 kills per frontline (got over 50+ screen shots of 15+ kills and 0 deaths with max Battle High with frontline wins (got my very first frontline screen shot, and boy was I bad lol), now, I get like 20+ kills, hell, I got two screen shots of 30ish kills after pvp revamp) got 300 kills within 4 days and went from 4.7k kills to 5k, thus, finishing the title "The Hand of Mercy" and now its worthless cause of how easy it is to get lol.

[Apeman]

Frontlines is total garbage atm. It's nothing but waves of summoners mass LBing entire alliances to death and never ending CC spam. As soon as you get stunned you are dead before it even wears off. The amount of times i've purified a stun only todie before i can get a heal or guard off before i am hit with somethng else or just dead is nonsense. My last match i just did between the three teams in shatter had 30 summoners in it.

[Caddo]

I'm just tired of Bahamut tbh. Shatter and Danshig are not fun anymore and they were my favorite PVP modes. Oh look, an ice/node! ANNNNNNNNNNND 4-5 Bahamuts and max battle high summoners off in the distance drooling.

[Anhra]

snip

Meta Classes in their current state, aten't as much of a deal as People make them out to be. Sure, their advantages are obvious on paper, but you are forgetting two things here and thats:

1st, the AVERAGE PvP participant is bad at the Game, like, really bad unlike before 6.1. where they could just spam Heal and run away unpunished, they actually have now to use the heal a bit more ressourceful without getting bonked immediately . I had a few times the Joy of fighting a 1vs1 Match aganist certain Jobs like NIN which many think OP, which absolutely isnt the case. Without the LB and the Stun it has, it hits like a wet noodle, so much that i can defeat it with MOST Jobs including BLM. Back then, it was unfathomable to kill a melee dps in a 1vs1 even without BH, hell a single melee dps could win 1vs3 aganist 3 ranged dps if the area had places to abuse LoS, and i doubt that is fairer than sometimes getting stunned.

2nd: Meta, as well as Prople who follow it, are predictable.
This is imo, the biggest weakness RDM, WHM, WAR and whatever Job you make it part to be has. If you die often enough, you can see that most People always use the same approach. Unlike pre 6.1 where you HAD to rely on others in order to kill anything outside of being melee dps, you can now use interesting approaches such as half your Team (or even all of them) choosing the same Job. Sure, SMN or SCH are the most popular choice, but have you given a thought or even seen what a full DNC Group that are all linked to the same Guy can do? How about 4 People going NIN and try to go commando (not talking about panties here) behind Enemy lines to LB down weak enemies that try to use Elixir?

While PvP is in its current state by no means perfect, it doesn't need to be it. It is a fact, that despite all claims on what People say aganist it, this form of PvP IS vastly superior than its predecessor in any regard and the activity of both CC and Frontline, as well as the fact on how many People you see hanging arround in Wolves Den, shows of its success and how well it is overall recieved.


Also on a sidenote, "Fun" isn't a good argument. Sure, it is important to enjoy the things you do, but using fun as a means to adress objectivity, is a moot point because Fun is subjective. Just as People can enjoy old pvp more than current, the same can also be said about People eho enjoy being on the recieving end of a abusive relationship, simply because it is fun.

[Lustre]

Pvp was better pre-6.1, especially Frontlines. It was more balanced. Just because people are mouthbreathing and cant focus healers, doesnt mean it was unbalanced or unfair. Compare that to all the instaKOs now and yeah.....

[Anhra]

Pvp was better pre-6.1, especially Frontlines. It was more balanced. Just because people are mouthbreathing and cant focus healers, doesnt mean it was unbalanced or unfair. Compare that to all the instaKOs now and yeah.....

Pre 6.1, A experienced Healer, could tank a Full Party of People as long as they dont have more than 3 Melee DPS, for a very long time, if not forever if there was enough room to abuse LoS, what part of this is balanced?

PvP isnt about balance. What PvP needs above all else is variety of solutions and means. You should put down your Nostalgia Goggles and accept the fact that old PvP was a wintrading cesspool for far too long that was only being played by a fraction of a handful of People, and even fewer of those, enjoyed it.

[Themarvin]

Firs of all nothing is too powerfull in FL... however the way they have allowed things to be is open for direct exploitation.

The thing is... they should not allow for multiple clases being the same class in each group, to take advantage and exploit the way up, permitting max 1 of each class can be done... you queu in.... you can only see 1 WHM... 1 SMN etc.... and enforce 1 tank 1 heals each group, with a max of two tank and heal slots that need to be filled upon entry or something down those lines.

[Mistress_Irika]

I can care less about pvp being balance, because at the end of the day it'll always be about skill. Normally, I would shower frontlines with praises. This isn't the case this patch. I don't like the flow of it.

I finally tried out frontlines. My main issue is how limit breaks are charging while out of combat. You can literally do objectives for 2 minutes straight, and when you finally get into an encounter everyone's limit breaks are already charged. Heck, even "letting them fight" will have everyone's limit break charged. At that point it's who can engage with their limit breaks first. If your team moves slow, oh well. Why would I favor playing under those conditions? I haven't even factored in battle high.