Hot Take Inside: Remove raidwide buffs (2m) to explore new job design

[cjbeagle]

I'm tired of hearing so many players talk about removing things from kits they don't like, but never talk about what they want to see added in replacement of that. It's what lost us Foe's Requiem (Players complained about the janky cast time and how awkward it felt, and how theyd rather see the move replaced, but they never talk about what they want to see added on in it's replacement). It's what gave us this current summoner (calls to remove dots, pets, aetherflow, etc, summoner opinions were everywhere on what needed to be removed, but very few people talked about what should be added outside of 'Make it feel more like a Summoner'). It's what just lost Samurai's Kaiten.

How does any of this have anything to do with Kaiten getting removed? Nobody was complaining about Kaiten, or even samurai in general.

[Rika007]

How does any of this have anything to do with Kaiten getting removed? Nobody was complaining about Kaiten, or even samurai in general.

Kaiten was removed because of button bloat, and Samurai was one of the jobs many players complained about button bloat with (DRG being another one).

[cjbeagle]

Kaiten was removed because of button bloat, and Samurai was one of the jobs many players complained about button bloat with (DRG being another one).

I didn't realize people were complaining about button bloat on any jobs - I thought that was purely a dev talking point. Then again, I only joined these forums recently, so maybe I just didn't dig far enough back into past threads.



EDIT: I just browsed through the last 5 months worth of threads not including the 6.1 stuff.

- Only 9 threads total that even mention samurai in the title, which suggests they didn't have much to complain about.

- Only 1 thread talking about samurai button bloat, which got 3 likes and 0 replies.

- There was 1 thread that specifically suggested removing Kaiten, and everyone who replied to that take disagreed with it.



So it seems that people complaining about samurai button bloat, at least on these forums, amounted to 1 post and 3 likes in the last 5+ months.

I don't think you can attribute the removal of Kaiten to the samurai playerbase complaining about button bloat.

[MilkieTea]

I didn't realize people were complaining about button bloat on any jobs - I thought that was purely a dev talking point. Then again, I only joined these forums recently, so maybe I just didn't dig far enough back into past threads.

It's been a reoccurring talking point in the DPS threads.

[cjbeagle]

It's been a reoccurring talking point in the DPS threads.

x_x So even going back over 5 months wasn't enough? XD I give up, I'll take you two at your word.

[MilkieTea]

x_x So even going back over 5 months wasn't enough? XD I give up, I'll take you two at your word.

There are quite a few threads that don't have "button bloat" in the title and don't mention Samurai in the title, yet discuss it within the contents of the post or end up devolving into a discussion on that. Trust me, it got to a point a few months back where there were about 3 or 4 threads having the same discussion on button bloat at once.

A common talking point was "condense buttons to be like PVP because there's too much to press."

[ExcogEnjoyer]

Spare me your own histrionics and I will spare you mine. This Bard is literally miles above the snore that was ARR and the jank that was Heavensward. And it blows the absolute pathetic mockery that was Shadowbringers Bard out of the water. The only version that is superior is Stormblood. Go play summoner, don't wreck another job with your complaints because you can't be bothered to think up your own fixes.

I can tell that you aren't actually interested though in discussing actual fixes to Bard's kit, you are just here to crap on the job and argue with anyone who disagrees with you. The fact that you instantly discounted optimizations for hardcore players tells me all I need to know that you and I will literally agree on nothing, so don't bother responding to me and I won't bother responding to any of your points.

I discounted it because its lame shit. Wow. Holding cooldowns for 10-20 seconds because a boss is invuln or everyone is really spread out so they can't get buffs. Fucking enthralling. Not everything is about parsing. Some people just want to have fun.

[Stasya]

Kaiten was removed because of button bloat, and Samurai was one of the jobs many players complained about button bloat with (DRG being another one).

Hello troll. Samurai had no button bloat at all and also had no apm problems. Removing kaiten didn't even lowered sam apm.

[Rika007]

Hello troll. Samurai had no button bloat at all and also had no apm problems. Removing kaiten didn't even lowered sam apm.

Hello person who immediately jumps to conclusions, I'm one of the many people who think Kaiten's removal was absloutely dumb as hell. Calm yourself. Regardless of wither or not I agree with it, that is the reason why SE did it.

[Rika007]

I discounted it because its lame shit. Wow. Holding cooldowns for 10-20 seconds because a boss is invuln or everyone is really spread out so they can't get buffs. Fucking enthralling. Not everything is about parsing. Some people just want to have fun.

You literally didn't read my point at all and you continue to show your ignorance by acting like holding a cooldown was the only point I made about BA/AP optimization, it wasn't, in fact i specifically said other things about its optimization is why it's different then just holding a cooldown. At no point did I speak about parsing, and also news flash, damage optimization is actually fun for many players. Get over yourself. Learn how to actually carry on a discussion like an adult.