I would like to encourage everyone to keep providing the feedback YoshiP asked for.

[xAFROx]

I'll only answer for the Job I played.

Smn used to have more of a focus on managing your pets and building up to Bahamut and Phoenix rather than having them be on timers. Was old smn clunky? Yes. Pets had some jank AI. But imagine our surprise when we asked for a fix to the job and we got a lobotomy. We no longer commanded our pets to take actions, they were now just kinda animations that happened to ghost if your target died. Our DoT's interacted with fester and had its cooldown refreshed upon entering our trance phase before we summoned our demi's. There was a fair amount more nuance to the job and admittedly alot of that *was* from the pet AI it was just as simple a job as any other. But to find out that it got reduced to recolored ruin spam in 6.0 was crazy. We wanted the pet AI to be fixed. We didn't ask for it to get gutted like this. Alot of us are even okay with the new direction but the absolutely static rotation with no way to optimize is a frustration.

I dabbled in SMN back then, but never to a point where I knew what I was doing. Trance was interesting. Bahamut was neat. Titan-egi was capable of tanking a majority of low end content and as well as swapping in high end content for a brief bit I heard.

I will say I like the direction SMN is going, but I feel like they should've done something more at 90 with the kit they introduced in 6.0 rather than it just being a slightly stronger reskin of the new level 50.

As for jobs I personally played or mained, I was primarily DRK and SAM. I also leveled the other tanks and SCH/SMN in those days for flexibility on roles.

[SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep]

The short answer is that many of the jobs had a lot more to do in previous expansions.

The longer answer would be pointing out the actual individual changes and removals that have happened to each job over the years. But as someone who only started playing during Stormblood, I'm only qualified to speak of what happened from there on.

Enmity (or aggro) used to be something actively managed by Tanks and certain jobs even had abilities to help with that *cough NIN*....

Healers had a more involved dps rotation (it wasn't much) like for instance, SCH still had a lot of spells from the base dps class of Arcanist.

Tanks used to have a tank stance and a dps stance and they would dance between them in fights to maintain damage and aggro, even having 2 separate 1-2-3 combos, one for aggro and one for damage/sustain/debuff depending on the job.

Dps... well, melee had more of a focus on positionals (particularly MNK) and SAM positionals were mostly tied to kenki generation rather than damage.

That's just stuff I can recall off the top.

This shit here is why I made the post.

The problem at hand isn't "SE made a blunder".

Let's be real. This is 100% intended. SE wants to dumb down every class as much as possible. They want to absolutely make everything brainless for the most casual players. God forbid there's even a tiny blip of complexity ANYWHERE in the game in the path of the casuals. They must all go.

"We care about your feedback"? If they care so much about it, why the hell didn't they gather them BEFORE they make these changes? Where even the hell this shit even came from? No one asked for it. Everyone was pissed of the INSTANT kaiten removal was brought up. Oh no. "Feedback" is just damage control.

Some players then actually go and test things out and pointing out all the issues and saying "best way to fix it is to just revert everything".

Guess what happens next? Of course they not going to revert it. Dumbing down classes is THE directive. "Handling your feedback" is damage control. They will spin bullshit after bullshit from the forum "feedback" and give you watered down garbage. Sounds familiar?

Giving any other feedback is just counter productive. It's like negotiating with terrorist. Just revert it. No one likes it. End of discussion.

Edit- TBF, they are not doing that maliciously. It's not like they think "let's trash the game and who cares about the players". It's just the way the company functions. They have objectives and goals top down from the senior management and after damage is done, the team have to try pick up the pieces. The directive isn't "make the game dumb". It's "make the game more accessible to more players" which is just mostly casuals. This is why giving them room to spin doesn't help. The only way is to tell them to go back to the management and tell them to shove it or else.

[RArchet]

Let's be real. This is 100% intended. SE wants to dumb down every class as much as possible. They want to absolutely make everything brainless for the most casual players. God forbid there's even a tiny blip of complexity ANYWHERE in the game in the path of the casuals. They must all go.

Can confirm. I tried SAM without even bothering with Shinten as well because that is more button and APM bloat. More opportunities to mess up, best not bother with it.

Perfectly Lobotomized, just as SE seems to intend.

Why yes, I do have a high Sodium Chloride level.

[Roxus]

Abbreviated.

I absolutely agree. And I want more people to speak up. Even if they tried once before, or think it's pointless, if they suddenly decide to start listening and you stop, they won't know what to fix and change something random again. Sadly negotiating is what people are starting to get used to because they feel their feedback is ignored. JP feels this way as well.

Oh also it would help if our community managers were more involved with the community. I think it's unacceptable how silent they are at times. Acknowledgement would be a huge load off of people's shoulders, we don't have to be friends or anything. Just you know, let us know you're all still here reading what people are saying.

[Yuurei_007]

NIN
+1 for reverting change, it was good in 6.08, mug having too many properties now and gameplay less fun now (if the team prefers adding 10% personal buff with the 5% team buff, I don't mind), burst window alignment is not necessary for most of the content in the game, so no reason to change 6.08 ninja state
SAM
+1 for reverting change, it was good in 6.08, kaiten was fun to use. Removing it for reducing variance is a bad solution. If the team wants to reduce variance, juste make 100% critical hit..
DRG
+1 for reverting change about jump lock animation. Although I guess there are some people who asked that change, I don't like it, it was part of the identity of the dragon for me to use jumps at the good moment

[DreadfullyAwful]

Bump due to thread still be extremely relevant.

[xAFROx]

Bump due to thread still be extremely relevant.

It most certainly is. Thanks for the bump.

[xAFROx]

Bump.

I still would like to hope that SAM is reverted and be given proper adjustments in line with keeping the kit intact.

Bring back Seigan, make it transform over Shinten for proper mitigation with Third Eye.
Bring back Kaiten, do whatever balancing changes it needs to fit with the new design, I just want my swish swish animation that flows through the gcd roll back, shinten stab is awkward and janky.
Change Ogi Namikiri to appear on the Ikishoten button when used.
Let Ikishoten change Shinten and Kyuten into Senei and Guren when used.
Make Tenka Goken a cone again.
Make a dedicated button for Meditation stack skills that act similarly to the iaijutsu button and expand on the Meditation resource as a whole.

Can even bring back Merciful Eyes if they want to with changes like this.

Potencies can be adjusted as needed, just so long as the damage we deal is focused where it always should have been, with the big finisher iaijutsu skills.

A compromise on keeping the number of actions available while cleaning up the amount of buttons.

[Teteiyusu]

Bump for this thread.

First time poster to the forums.

Doing so has been something I really didn't want to do. But I wanted to voice my opinion on this.

I feel feel that the current changes have taken away the feel and fun of the class for me.
The class as of 6.08 felt so good to be playing.
Then after they did these changes to the skills... the class has felt empty and has lost the rewarding feeling it once had to play.

I truly hope that these will be fixed and reverted...
but from what I have seen... I have little hope as it appears the developers aren't listening to the outcry at all.

It saddens me as I was looking for a game that had such a class in it for a long time until I stumbled upon it in FFXIV. I truly enjoyed learning how the class worked and every time I got better at it and more used to it. it felt so rewarding...
Yet now... it just feels so unrewarding... I miss the way it felt before and played before...
Its just missing that feeling that it had before...

I hope the developers will listen... and take the outcries to heart and revert us back to how we were... they had hit such a sweet spot with the class... and then ruined it so quickly...

That is just my two-sad-cents...
Hoping that being someone whom doesn't post on the forums... speaking out may mean something...
We shall have to see...

Thank you.

[Raikai]

My pleas:

- Change your fight philosophy to be less formulaic, because this impacts directly into the jobs' kits, especially healers' healing actions and the overall importance of DPSers to use their personal utilities (interrupt, cleanse, etc)

- Destroy 2 minute cycle alignments, it just makes everything so homogenous...

- For DNC, my main job: (given the above point) Instead of Technical Step party buff window, let Standard Step keep its buff across multiple people at the same time. Making Closed Position work like Kardia, I would be able to weave it before the next SS and spread 60s buffs between other party members - the challenge would be to optimize on how many people you could keep your SS buff rolling at once, and TS would be just a big personal buff and to your current dance partner.