Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Ggwppino]

Id smn became the new utility mage I wouldn't even complain as long it's fun and the utility is useful. The issue right now is it's neither a good DPS nor a utility caster. RDM can do everything a smn can do but so so much better and has some complexity to its kit. That's why I say the caster role balance is off this expac because you have 3 casters but only two out of the three of them are useful and good at what they do...

yes I agree. And yet it's not so hard to realize that smn has a bad design, especially in utility: why a situational cure? what were the designers thinking to consider it a good idea? Why not accumulate instant ress, when the window of phoenix happens, to pull in the moment of need? That doesn't seem crazy compared to a dualcast+swiftcast of an rdm. What were they thinking when they made Physick that scales on mind and not int? Why put a shield that can't always be cast? Why not have carbuncle attack but just make it very neutered and useless? (the shields pulls them only if you are not in bahamut / phoenix and if it has not just turned into an elemental, and the fact is that the animations of the elementals last a lot so you have to make a predict very early for mitigation or you lose it). Why have so many instant spells when ifrit does not allow slidecasting at all, making it annoying and for the absence of damage not very rewarding? Frankly, all these instant spells are not needed, if not needed for a blm. Especially if they justify the low damage. Why doesn't the smn have ocgds? not necessarily for damage, they can also be abilities to help the party, but right now it has nothing. In garuda window is just a spam of emerald rite, nothing more nothing less. Frankly now smn is nothing: not a strong dps and not a useful utility class.

[Rolder50]

Man, feel like Summoner complaints got drowned out by all the Samurai complaints. But I still think SMN needs more buttons, dang it.

[Zarkovitch]

I love the new summoner. If ppl are mad with the new summoner just play something else like bard for dots or blm/rdm caster playstyle. I used to be drk player wasnt happy with direction of EW then I switch to SMN. I'm currently doing the new ultimate with SMN. I'm so annoyed to see players wanted the pet to have more power do not understand how bad the pet system is on higher content or smn need to be warlock again when it closest to a final fantasy style we ever see. As for buttons we going get more but for sure it be replace by a other button due to the controller players like me.

[Coletergeist]

Man, feel like Summoner complaints got drowned out by all the Samurai complaints. But I still think SMN needs more buttons, dang it.

I feel this. Like, I have a love/hate relationship with new SMN; I feel like...they're going in the right direction (I think), but to be able to play the job essentially with one hand is weird and doesn't feel nice to play. But like, it's...okay? Idk, I have mixed feelings. Just seems like there's more complaints about jobs more than ever flooding the front page.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I love the new summoner. If ppl are mad with the new summoner just play something else like bard for dots or blm/rdm caster playstyle. I used to be drk player wasnt happy with direction of EW then I switch to SMN. I'm currently doing the new ultimate with SMN. I'm so annoyed to see players wanted the pet to have more power do not understand how bad the pet system is on higher content or smn need to be warlock again when it closest to a final fantasy style we ever see. As for buttons we going get more but for sure it be replace by a other button due to the controller players like me.

I mean it's fine you and others like new smn. I don't mind new smn myself and I do hope they build on what they have now but that's the thing, we don't know they will. Look at the mch rework in ShB, they said the same thing about mch ppl are saying about smn. "Wait to next expac, we get more buttons and they build on top of mch's kit." Well here we are one whole expac later and what did mch get? An upgraded spammable aoe, a new finisher for queen, and one whole new button to press ever so often. Mch didn't change, it didn't get better between ShB and EW, so what is it to say smn will? My issue about new smn is the fact it's so barebones, feels unfinished and it is so rigid. You are on a railroad track the whole time with no meaningful choices.

Also, the new smn has left a gap in the caster role. It used to be the in-between rdm and blm where RDM was considered the utility job of choice and BLM was considered the pure dps of choice. Smn was a balance between dps and utility. Now that rdm and smn have the same dps we can only look at the utility they are to make a decision between them. When you do look at their utility rdm pulls ahead of smn because they can rez 2 to 3 ppl in a row and has on-demand mit utility whereas smn can rez one person pre min and its healing utility is locked behind a demi that only every odd minute. I said it before rdm can do everything an smn can do but better.

Now you said just go play blm/rdm if you don't like smn. Well, I could but why do I, someone who main smn since SB have to be made to change to jobs I never liked. Do you know why I chose smn in SB? Because I enjoy it more than any other job in the game at the time. I hated blm and I never cared for rdm, smn was just right for me bc I wanted to play a caster that was fun to play, had semi-high dps, and offer some utility. Now, where do I go? There isn't a 4th caster I can choose from. I would change to rpr but my static of 2 years has one but has no caster so I'm forced to play jobs I don't really enjoy. I currently play smn and some rdm just bc its the role I'm filling in for, not because I enjoy them. Either way, you are free to enjoy new smn but don't shut down those who feel the same way as I do. Those who lost their home job and now being told to go play something else.

[Coletergeist]

If ppl are mad with the new summoner just play something else like bard for dots or blm/rdm caster playstyle.

Not exactly the best advice. There are reasons why there are a lot of complaints and it shouldn't just be ignored or passed on as 'well if *I* like it bla bla' - okay great you like it, but a lot of players don't and that much is pretty much evident. The only players I've noticed that enjoy the new SMN are those that like simple or hated the pet thing, which I agree with (the pet thing, that is. I want more complexity though). BUT, that doesn't mean that the new SMN is great either. As for the dot thing, we aren't asking for the dot to come back, we're just asking for something....more. It's not a bad thing to have a desire for a job that we had once previously enjoyed to be revived as something that is enjoyable to play again with more than a single brain cell. I literally check out when I play the new SMN. I can just hope that they do add more to the job later on, but I'm not going to inch to the edge of my seat thinking they will.

[Rolder50]

If ppl are mad with the new summoner just play something else like bard for dots or blm/rdm caster playstyle.

It's a darn shame then, that they removed what little interaction Bard DoTs had with their kit in this expansion as well. It used to be the case that song procs and Sidewinder were based off your DoTs but this isn't the case any more. There are now zero jobs that have dots that interact with the rest of the kit.

[Grimoire-M]

It's a darn shame then, that they removed what little interaction Bard DoTs had with their kit in this expansion as well. It used to be the case that song procs and Sidewinder were based off your DoTs but this isn't the case any more. There are now zero jobs that have dots that interact with the rest of the kit.

Nevermind the audacity to suggest that Summoner didn’t offer unique gameplay compared to now. Red Mage’s melee and double cast requirements limit its mobility options and Black Mage’s cooldown management optimization is designed to highlight how little it’s allowed to move. Bard’s all about procs and actually WAS the phase based job they were after. Pre-Endwalker Summoner, by contrast, is the ONLY Caster DPS job with a GRANULAR curve on its movement optimization thanks to having a consistent on-demand instantcast spell from day one. What else did it have? Hardcast DoTs, actual pet management, a significant and lengthy window where movement was effectively free (DWT/FBT in SB/ShB), and for a long time, the exclusive ability to realign many of its burst cooldowns around the fight based on downtime at ZERO loss (Aetherflow, Summon Bahamut, DWT in HW/SB). And the DoTs and Aetherflow fit thematically as representations of Allagan Arcanima ALONGSIDE the Carbuncles and Egi.

If they wanted a phase based rotation with barely functional differences and no real thinking required beyond reacting to glowing/contextual buttons thanks to unlimited mobility while getting randomly punished for arbitrary reasons, Bard was there for them the entire time. I want my job and its prerequisite class back so we can take its strong themes and solid core progression curve and inject it with actual mechanical flavor on top, dammit!

[Lustre]

The lean into job identity was nice, but in terms of gameplay, its horrible. I liked summoner til endwalker. Now it feels hollow. Maybe when they build onto it itll feel better.

[Rolder50]

The lean into job identity was nice, but in terms of gameplay, its horrible. I liked summoner til endwalker. Now it feels hollow. Maybe when they build onto it itll feel better.

I wouldn't bet on it, considering people said the same thing about MCH last expansion and they got basically nothing in this one.