There's too much strawmanning people who criticize the game

[Sicno]

There's been lots of threads over the years. Here's 2 from 2 seconds of Google.


https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/388246

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/265439

And it was an example dude. People ask for fundamental changes to games design all the time.

2 threads, from 2015 and 2019. And you had to use google in order to find them.

So, about strawmanning...

I've been using these forums for many years too and this is the first time I recall seeing anyone bring "action mmo" into discussion. The most frequent complains I've seen are about job balance, healer design, opinions on content, relic grinds, glams, Viera/Hrothgar, etc. but never about making it "action mmo".

[Atelier-Bagur]

To be fair, a lot of the 'content' in that list is pretty much just depthless completionism, or stuff that takes a very short amount of time each week. A lot of players simply don't see "collect all 100 shiny pebels for some points that do nothing" as legitimate content.

I think a lot of the appeal of these types of games comes from a sense of progression, and when that feeling dries up the game becomes very boring. Some people are able to get that sense of progression from grinding out every relic or triple triad card, but they are a very small minority.

Same argument can be said for actual character progression. Once you get all the BiS stuff in any MMO what then? Doing raids, dungeons you've done before multiple times? Who the heck wants to play a game where you never meet your end goals and enjoy the accomplishments and completion aspect of satisfaction that is embedded in say "every single game thats ever made"? The thing with MMOs is that endgame character progression is really only temporary, and with FFXIV's case is very rewarding to have that little downtime period where you've achieved those personal wants without having to mindlessly play the game for progressing as possible.

WoW gave us a good example of the negative aspects of pointless retention systems. Again I'm waiting for somebody to give me an actual good example of fun retention content that lasts for the entirety of the game.

[Jaquan]

To be fair, a lot of the 'content' in that list is pretty much just depthless completionism, or stuff that takes a very short amount of time each week. A lot of players simply don't see "collect all 100 shiny pebels for some points that do nothing" as legitimate content.

I think a lot of the appeal of these types of games comes from a sense of progression, and when that feeling dries up the game becomes very boring. Some people are able to get that sense of progression from grinding out every relic or triple triad card, but they are a very small minority.

Really? Wasn't common complain about WoW, that the game was slowly becoming a checklist of daily content you needed to do to stay on top of your character progression ( mixed with unhealthy dose of RNG that could halt your progress altogether)? I don't really see any realistic way to make a retention system that last indefinitely without making it somehow abusive towards players

[Atelier-Bagur]

I don't play very many mmorpgs. The only ones I've played in the last few years are Lost Ark and ESO. Lost Ark has their Legion Raids (not in the western release currently), and ESO has Cyrodill PvP (haven't played ESO in over two years), for example. FFXIV is pretty much the only MMO I play. I've made many suggestions in the past on what I'd like to see, so I'm sorry if I have kind of lost my patience, especially with the direction, I, and many others, believe this game is heading.

Pretty much.

Alright so you mentioned Legion raids and PvP. How are those different compared to other types of content in other MMOs? What sort of exciting and new challenges Lost Ark's Legion raiding does that warrants it as a "good" example of lasting content? What does ESO's PvP system do that makes them stand out from any other MMO's PvP that is considered valuable retention?

Not trying to be mean but I want to better understand where you are coming from.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

2 threads, from 2015 and 2019. And you had to use google in order to find them.

So, about strawmanning...

I've been using these forums for many years too and this is the first time I recall seeing anyone bring "action mmo" into discussion. The most frequent complains I've seen are about job balance, healer design, opinions on content, relic grinds, glams, Viera/Hrothgar, etc. but never about making it "action mmo".

Yes google, because I dont remember every thread number i visit. I don't have photographic memory. Apparently threads on certain requests only matter if they are from this year or something. I'm surte I can find other threads more recently with more time, but I dont really care enough.

I mean, you have a post from 2013 linked in your signature and apparently that is still relevant.

[Skiros]

Not that I disagree with your point. They should rework Hrothgar entirely as opposed to endlessly patching in hairstyles because of a broken race. But I'll let you try and use some self-awareness to try and figure out why the emboldened text is hypocritical coming from you.

Edit: Especially when one of your criticisms of the game has had you critiquing the character creation.

Because that was clearly sarcasm as a reply to someone making that very argument.

[Skiros]

I don't think that's the case at all. Especially since a lot of veteran players have consistently pushed for more variety in terms of content that is dynamic and not a pure, tedious grind.

What's interesting is that many of the same posters who insist that there's plenty to do will engage in strange attempts at gatekeeping by insisting that the game doesn't need more variety.

Which leads to a situation where, conveniently, any suggestion for 'more content' is shot down no matter what. Funny, that...

Exactly. You are talking to someone who just said "no" in the 24-man Savage thread just because they don't personally like that concept.

[Kaurhz]

Because that was clearly sarcasm as a reply to someone making that very argument.

Given your blunt tone, in combination with the nature of a good portion of your posts I wouldn’t take it as a surprise if you were serious.

[Skiros]

Given your blunt tone, in combination with the nature of a good portion of your posts I wouldn’t take it as a surprise if you were serious.

That's weird because I literally just quoted the guy verbatim.

"Some criticisms are not warranted" is literally quoted verbatim for example.

[Ransu]

This is the kind of thing the OP is about... and of course people want content that is more relevant to their interests. Not sure what the expectation is here? To clamour for content you'll never do? Like Theodric said, variety is good, but why would you advocate for more of what you're not interested in, particularly if you feel you're not getting enough of what you do want?

There's a lot of content I don't like in FFXIV, but I also don't feel compelled to log in every single day like some of ya'll do which is part of the problem. Its OK to not play every day. The developers try to spread out the type of content they release and have a variety of content. Focusing too much on a single thing would eventually lead to less content. Would you rather they created a "dynamic" content that's just ultra grindy that will hold you over for 6-12 months with no patches in between? Personally I prefer getting consistent updates every few months over what other MMO's do where they drop a "big update" and then go silent for a year.