Unranked to Diamond in 7 hours

[LeonKeyh]

8 promos to gold lost as top DPS?

"Top DPS" is hardly a meaningful statistic in and of itself, no offense to the person you responded to. I could sit there and use AoEs and attack random people and probably hit top DPS by just staying alive and staying out of range also letting people heal themselves as I'm chasing them down.

Meaningful DPS is what's important. K:A doesn't tell the full story either, but it definitely is closer to useful information.

[Petite]

"Top DPS" is hardly a meaningful statistic in and of itself [...]

Au contraire, I think damage dealt is the best performance indicator. Damage is what forces Guards, Recouperates, depletes the enemy's manapool, pressures people off the objective and ultimately leads to kills and moving the crystal forward. Also, meaningful damage will naturally net you more dps because fighting over the objective is where dealing AOE damage is easiest as it's where people group up. So your example doesn't make sense.

In addition, players who are noticeably low on damage usually are because they don't use defensive cooldowns effectively, make themselves easy targets, chase enemies foolishly, become 1v1 heroes and so on. That means they die too much and don't contribute to the team as well as someone who can hold their own and have more uptime in the fighting, leading to more damage.

Clutch LBs and great crystal stalls are also factors, but I'm sure most people agree that damage dealt is a very meaningful overall performance indicator.

Also, I was calling out that other person because I have a strong feeling they're making stuff up and going for a pity party. There's a lot of that going on in this here forum.

[Lymberey]

Au contraire, I think damage dealt is the best performance indicator. Damage is what forces Guards, Recouperates, depletes the enemy's manapool, pressures people off the objective and ultimately leads to kills and moving the crystal forward. Also, meaningful damage will naturally net you more dps because fighting over the objective is where dealing AOE damage is easiest as it's where people group up. So your example doesn't make sense.

In addition, players who are noticeably low on damage usually are because they don't use defensive cooldowns effectively, make themselves easy targets, chase enemies foolishly, become 1v1 heroes and so on. That means they die too much and don't contribute to the team as well as someone who can hold their own and have more uptime in the fighting, leading to more damage.

Clutch LBs and great crystal stalls are also factors, but I'm sure most people agree that damage dealt is a very meaningful overall performance indicator.

Also, I was calling out that other person because I have a strong feeling they're making stuff up and going for a pity party. There's a lot of that going on in this here forum.

Not necessarily true as total damage dealt can be padded. You have to consider the job that dealt the damage as well because not every job can deal huge amount of damage but some jobs can deal a very low amount of damage in a group for a long time. Some jobs can easily top the damage dealt of the game with fairly low impact spells but when it comes to what actually wins the teamfight, its usually the burst type jobs which will have lower overall damage dealt as they are single target skills.

Kill count and total damage dealt do not always reflect the actual performance, thats is what i love about the mode. You can be the most disruptive bastard or the most beloved support of the game without any kill or being the top 3 or top 5 dmg dealt, but you still contributed greatly to the team.

In short, a player can deal the most damage but have the lowest impact in the game, and vice versa. It is hard to tell unless you know exactly what was the job they played, and what role that job was designed for.

[Petite]

Not necessarily true as total damage dealt can be padded.

I already explained how playing around the objective is the best way to "pad" because that's where people fight in clumps. So you're not really "padding" if you're fighting over the crystal.

You have to consider the job that dealt the damage as well

I thought that went without saying. Should I remind people not to stare at the sun too?

Kill count [...] do not always reflect the actual performance

I didn't even mention kill count in my post so I don't know where that argument is coming from. I also said that yes, it doesn't always reflect performance because it's not flawless. My point still stands that it's a good indicator of it.

I swear people are just trying to be contrarians at this point. Anyone would be miffed for losing a game in which a teammate dealt 300K while the rest of you dealt 700K+.

[Lymberey]

I already explained how playing around the objective is the best way to "pad" because that's where people fight in clumps. So you're not really "padding" if you're fighting over the crystal.


I thought that went without saying. Should I remind people not to stare at the sun too?


I didn't even mention kill count in my post so I don't know where that argument is coming from. I also said that yes, it doesn't always reflect performance because it's not flawless. My point still stands that it's a good indicator of it.

I swear people are just trying to be contrarians at this point. Anyone would be miffed for losing a game in which a teammate dealt 300K while the rest of you dealt 700K+.

My point was that being TOP DPS doesn’t mean you have high impact on the outcome of the match, and being the lowest doesn’t mean you have low impact, and thats about it.

I think you already understood what i meant.

[Petite]

being TOP DPS doesn’t mean you have high impact on the outcome of the match, and being the lowest doesn’t mean you have low impact, and thats about it.

And people die when they are killed.

[LeonKeyh]

I swear people are just trying to be contrarians at this point. Anyone would be miffed for losing a game in which a teammate dealt 300K while the rest of you dealt 700K+.

No, I've just been in games where we pretty much got crushed despite the entire team dealing 700k+ damage, because nobody could focus on someone to kill them and it just resulted in the other team taking turns breaking LoS and using Elixir and coming back in pretty much right away.

It's great that you can top DPS, but you need to accept the fact that doesn't make you "the best" player by a long shot.

[Deceptus]

Not necessarily true as total damage dealt can be padded.

Every point of damage caused needs to be healed and that causes a waste of resources / opportunity cost elsewhere.

[Iyrnwaen]

Every point of damage caused needs to be healed and that causes a waste of resources / opportunity cost elsewhere.

This really isn't a winning argument in the context of CC. It's the farthest thing imaginable from an attrition model.
With the ready availability of healing resources to all jobs, non-lethal damage in combat has very little opportunity cost associated with it,
and non-lethal damage outside of combat has no opportunity cost whatsoever.
Dealing 36k damage to one target is better than doing 72k spread over 3 targets.
Dealing 36k damage in 6s and then doing nothing for 6s because your target is dead is better than doing 54k damage over 12s.
You can top damage every match playing Fire BLM, and the meter will keep telling you the losses weren't your fault.

[Gserpent]

This really isn't a winning argument in the context of CC. It's the farthest thing imaginable from an attrition model.
With the ready availability of healing resources to all jobs, non-lethal damage in combat has very little opportunity cost associated with it,
and non-lethal damage outside of combat has no opportunity cost whatsoever.
Dealing 36k damage to one target is better than doing 72k spread over 3 targets.
Dealing 36k damage in 6s and then doing nothing for 6s because your target is dead is better than doing 54k damage over 12s.
You can top damage every match playing Fire BLM, and the meter will keep telling you the losses weren't your fault.

What are you talking about? Healing is a huge opportunity cost. Target priority in CC is pretty much always "the person without any mana left" because you know they can't heal much and heals from healers and other classes are more like backwards damage mitigation than actual healing. If DoT's and other incidental damage cause someone to heal, that means they're at 3/4 instead of 4/4. Bursting people down with CC is unreliable because of Guard and Purify (although server tickrate and latency can get you kills... christ knows I've died a few times while mashing Guard only for it to just not activate until after I was dead... instance servers seem to struggle with handling the number of games running during prime time on weekends), so it tends to be about attrition. Against good players, anyway. CC'ing someone is generally how you can force out a bunch of heals in quick succession, but a 25k DoT will leave a lot of classes at less than half HP if they don't heal.

Sure, you can pop a potion, but that's a 5 sec cast on top of needing to move to a place where it won't be interrupted, and then moving back to the fight. That's obviously a lot of time to make a move, and DoT effects tend to have 100% uptime if you want it. People undervalue DoT's and discard it as damage padding because they don't really grasp how much CC is actually about attrition. Burst doesn't work if the players on the other team are paying attention and are competent. If it did, 5 DPS teams would be dominant... but instead they tend to lose quite badly to more balanced teams, and 3-healer teams (particularly SCH AST SGE) are actually extremely strong because of their ability to mitigate and cause attrition.