Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Shiazirah]

Healer is boring, yes. tried different ones... i dont talk about ultima content, just MSQ content from - to...

When i see a 4 man party on a boss with 70% and except the tank the rest dies... there is JUST the tank standing there, mostly Warrior (some Paladins maybe) okay... and this one tank beats the shit out of the boss from 70% until death of the Boss, i am wondering why the hell we need a healer at all.....???? maybe just to keep the DPS alive who dont have the same selfhealabilities? but is THAT all?

If Square already decide to give healers so less to heal, then please, give them at least some kind of DMG rotation of 3 spells, with 66% on 1st and 33% on 2nd spell to proc the next one in line.... would not make them OP at all....

[Anhra]

I also do not see why all removing all sustain-based utility would be outright necessary just to implement talent systems. Of all the ways to improve healer gameplay, similarly, simply ripping skills out of everyone else seem a rather poor first step. There's literally nothing that removing utility from everyone else would do that couldn't be done better and more directly by just increasing encounters' damage (save, of course, for simplifying other jobs).

While it doesn't sound like a big deal on paper, it does add up to the whole picture at hand that is current Job design.

Let's take WAR for example. Its official Job description states (shortly summarized) how they are considered savage and a "overwhelming presence" while being the most enduring presence on the battlefield.

I fail to see how Skills such as Thrill of Battle (Heal), Equilibrium (Heal), Shake it off (Aoe mitigation utility) , Nascent Flesh/Raw Intuition/ Bloodwhetting (freaking Lifesteal + dmg mitigation) and Onslaught (3 charge dash, really?) translate into this Job identity. To me, when i think about a overpowering presence that fights like a savage with a big axe, i think about a slow swinging heavy hitting dude who has literally no self sustain, but compensates it with really high defenses and damage that might even make enemies flee in terror.


Now what has that to do with Healers? You see, all those Skills i mentioned earlier, are wasted opportunities (except for Onslaught, which is just dumb design) on Healers being able to provide as Utility. Wouldnt it be great if, for example, SCH's Shields could provide the Effect of Nascent Flesh? What about one of the AST Cards doing the effect of Thrill of Battle?
Changes like this would not only allow for Healers to improve, it would even give back Tanks some of the identity they lost for the sake of convenience.


As for "True, but we're both (A) no longer in pre-2012, and (B) in XIV. One or both factors has left players here likely to bar classes/jobs/specs over much smaller performance gaps than the case for WoW then and even today.",

Despite it being a thing of the past, it still doesn't invalidate the fact that such a System has been very well recieved by its Community, to the point that readding it (after it has been removed after WotLK, iirc) with the incoming Dragonflight expansion, has been giving many Players a reason to have hope in WoW again.

And while FFXIV is not WoW, i think we can learn a few things from them from time to time. FFXIV doesn't need to try to reinvent the wheel by always making completely new Systems, sometimes, its enough to simply copypaste a existing one and finetune it a little.

[MintnHoney]

i am wondering why the hell we need a healer at all.....???? maybe just to keep the DPS alive who dont have the same selfhealabilities? but is THAT all?

YoshiP says "Please look forward to it."

[SieyaM]

YoshiP says "Please look forward to it."

I think it would be hard to justify a job like WHM as a DPS job wince it has always been such a heal heavy job in the past, but I guess they could work it out. As for talent trees, it is true that those only offer the illusion of choice. There will always be a build that performs better than others and that is the one players will be expected to choose. You might be able to get away with other builds in some content but anyone looking to do content that cannot be done in DF will be excluded without having the proper build, and even then in DF if some people find out you don't have the right build they will probably kick you for slowing the run down.

[MintnHoney]

I think it would be hard to justify a job like WHM as a DPS job wince it has always been such a heal heavy job in the past, but I guess they could work it out. As for talent trees, it is true that those only offer the illusion of choice. There will always be a build that performs better than others and that is the one players will be expected to choose. You might be able to get away with other builds in some content but anyone looking to do content that cannot be done in DF will be excluded without having the proper build, and even then in DF if some people find out you don't have the right build they will probably kick you for slowing the run down.

Not that my sarcasm was directed at the specific discussion about talent trees, but I think it's silly to be afraid of a scenario of player groups in every type of content not allowing for certain jobs in XIV, because the game's general difficulty doesn't really justify having to look for the greatest-most-bestest build and the team has actively taken steps to ensure that such behavior could be viewed as harassment, therefore cowing everyone into basically keeping their heads down lest the hammer come looking for the nail. I don't necessarily believe that talent trees or whatever are the best answer to our healer situation, but we really shouldn't be letting something as banal as "meta" be stopping us from trying to get better gameplay, especially because, as it stands, we already have a meta anyway and 0 out of 4 healers are specifically fun on their own merits alone.

[game_enjoyer]

Not to mention with the buffs to tanks and their ability to self sustain, healers have even less work to do. Warriors can straight up solo heal themselves and also provide mitigations for the party. Dark knights have self healing on Living Dead now and the sheer amount of damage they do means there's less healer-healing to need. Makes me wonder, how long until self-sustain is so prevalent on tanks every job can solo heal thru anything?

[AmpelioB]

Not to mention with the buffs to tanks and their ability to self sustain, healers have even less work to do. Warriors can straight up solo heal themselves and also provide mitigations for the party. Dark knights have self healing on Living Dead now and the sheer amount of damage they do means there's less healer-healing to need. Makes me wonder, how long until self-sustain is so prevalent on tanks every job can solo heal thru anything?

they already can

[Jybril]

Not sure if I said it here yet but FIX AST.
Fix heals!
That is all.

[Recon1o6]

btw if anyone thinks criterion will have better healing that wont be the case. Its desiged for 1-4 players so naturally healing required will be pitiful

[IllyaPrisma]

If I run expert roulette dungeons with friends, we go WAR and 3 DPS...

Healers are boring and verging on unnecessary. In ultimate content, I might need to use additional GCD healing, but even in the most difficult content in the game I spend the majority of my time dealing damage.

This continued refusal to acknowledge how poorly designed the role is as a whole has got to end.