Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Minarisweet]

Kind of a vent post but, I hate that healing is so stupidly boring everywhere outside of savage, cuz I like doing more than just savage in this game and literally everywhere else including extreme healing is stupidly boring and savage is not an activity you can just log in and do, you gotta wait for the appropiate hour or have a static so you can't really play healers in this game to casually have fun... a videogame is not being fun when you want it to so what the fuck is the point.

[GrimGale]

I think Lucy Pyre on YouTube had a really well-put statement around the end of her video on job design in respond to Kaiten:

“I think having easy content and engaging jobs is a good strategy, but having easy content and brain dead jobs is pretty cringe.”

If the goal of making the game accessible means healing requirements need to stay low, then that can be fine, but we need to design healers with this aspect in mind. Instead they’re designed to be able to heal through an egregious amount of damage that does not exist which trivializes the damage we do get, yet at the same time is designed to struggle if you actually do run out of resources with pathetic GCD heals that eat way more MP than they’re worth and don’t offer you an out.

Misshapen chair also has a good quote:

"Healer design has changed a lot over the years, but content design has remained identical."

[MintnHoney]

Misshapen chair also has a good quote:

"Healer design has changed a lot over the years, but content design has remained identical."

I wonder if that's still accurate? In my eyes, I feel as if both have changed, but what healers had been changed to belongs in another game as an NPC rather than FFXIV and the direction they decided to go. Especially with this new solo-friendly direction.

[Anhra]

It might be just copium from my side, but i do hope that Squeenix realizes that the success of PvP Job design encourages them to finally do something similar and trash the entire Healer design for PvE and start anew.

Or at least, provide something like Talent trees that deviate into multiple Playstyles.

[Banriikku]

It might be just copium from my side, but i do hope that Squeenix realizes that the success of PvP Job design encourages them to finally do something similar and trash the entire Healer design for PvE and start anew.

Or at least, provide something like Talent trees that deviate into multiple Playstyles.

Gimme that WHM LASER >.<

[Shurrikhan]

It might be just copium from my side, but i do hope that Squeenix realizes that the success of PvP Job design encourages them to finally do something similar and trash the entire Healer design for PvE and start anew.

Or at least, provide something like Talent trees that deviate into multiple Playstyles.

The problem is that the average XIV player will insist that there will be a best choice (even if by as small a margin as some 1%) and that therefore there cannot actually be any "real" choice provided by such talents, despite the jobs themselves, as one such playstyle choice, having considerable gap that's never particularly stopped them from clearing even Ultimate.

[Nethereal]

The problem is that the average XIV player will insist that there will be a best choice (even if by as small a margin as some 1%) and that therefore there cannot actually be any "real" choice provided by such talents, despite the jobs themselves, as one such playstyle choice, having considerable gap that's never particularly stopped them from clearing even Ultimate.

The main issue the game would have with skill trees in reference to support is that damage cannot be in the same tree as support, damage is always superior.

For dps it's a lot simpler since everything is damage it merely changes the function of how the damage is dished out.

[Anhra]

The problem is that the average XIV player will insist that there will be a best choice (even if by as small a margin as some 1%) and that therefore there cannot actually be any "real" choice provided by such talents, despite the jobs themselves, as one such playstyle choice, having considerable gap that's never particularly stopped them from clearing even Ultimate.

That isn't entirely true. To provide everyones favorite example, WoW had during its early Days Talent trees avaiable and despite all that, you could always find someone with ease that had skilled either what was "best" or what they thought was fun in equal numbers.
Despite high DPS Numbers/parsing being far worse over there than here in FFXIV, Classes who had personal low Dps but provided Buffs (like Elemental Shaman or Discipline/Shadow Priest) were often considered a welcome addition to any Raid, because most Classes, couldnt even provide anything remotely close to those effects and only had at best, personal Buffs/Utility and thats it.


The point im making here, is that in order for Talent trees or at least, improving Healer quality in FFXIV, would be the removal of Partybuffs and self sustain Heals from MOST Jobs except on those where it is aporopiate like PLD being able to Heal. The removal (or heavy Nerf) of the passive HP/MP regen outside of combat would also great addition to inpliment Mana restoration Skills and a way/reasob to finally Buff ALC Potions which have been neglected for way too long.

It is merely one Aspect of the whole Healer problem at hand, but i think by doing so, it would improve Gameplay.

[Anhra]

The removal (or heavy Nerf) of the passive HP/MP regen outside of combat would also be a great addition to impliment Mana restoration Skills and a way/reason to finally Buff ALC Potions which have been neglected for way too long.

Seven hells, the Grammar. Also sorry for Doubleposting.

[Shurrikhan]

That isn't entirely true. To provide everyones favorite example, WoW had during its early Days Talent trees avaiable and despite all that, you could always find someone with ease that had skilled either what was "best" or what they thought was fun in equal numbers.

True, but we're both (A) no longer in pre-2012, and (B) in XIV. One or both factors has left players here likely to bar classes/jobs/specs over much smaller performance gaps than the case for WoW then and even today.

To be clear, I'm not against the implementation of talent systems or similar customization options. I've advocated for certain form of such customization since ARR (by having core gameplay-affecting traits be cross-classable, rather than particular actions, as a quick but effective, and largely curatable and therefore more easily tuned, way to vary aesthetic and playstyle). Though, I do think it's unwise to judge modern MMO players by what "worked" --and only to highly mixed effect (hence its removal)-- the last time WoW had a full-fledged talent system (pre-MoP).

in order for Talent trees or at least, improving Healer quality in FFXIV, would be the removal of Partybuffs and self sustain Heals from MOST Jobs

I also do not see why all removing all sustain-based utility would be outright necessary just to implement talent systems. Of all the ways to improve healer gameplay, similarly, simply ripping skills out of everyone else seem a rather poor first step. There's literally nothing that removing utility from everyone else would do that couldn't be done better and more directly by just increasing encounters' damage (save, of course, for simplifying other jobs).

Seven hells, the Grammar. Also sorry for Doubleposting.

Honestly, it was plenty clear. All good.