What has gotten into the community these days?

[Jirah]

I’d also like to say who the hell cares about the community, they don’t dictate the game and if they have any sort of stake in your enjoyment that you have to constantly remind yourself “forums bad!” Then that’s a personal issue.

For me personally I’d rather hear critique than a echo chamber. I can debate with critique I can’t with rose tinted glasses in disingenuous attitudes. Honestly Take that stuff to Reddit where critique of any kind is shunned. All hail SE, or somthing

End of the day, forums are for communication if you have so much disdain for opinions or roll your eyes on blatant missteps and have to be a white knight and tell people to “stop whining” on forums of all places, maybe this isn’t the best platform to spread tight end happiness

[MellowMink]

Repeatedly making homophobic or transphobic remarks absolutely is an example of bigotry, and that violates the terms of use.

To especially act like that massive thread isn’t still regularly receiving posts that include hateful and vulgar attacks against transgender people, said attacks including purposeful misgendering and concerning obsessions with what body parts that a transgender person may have, or to pretend like that transphobic behavior doesn’t reinforce harmful social attitudes that can lead to violence, is incredibly disingenuous.

Said thread is also filled with other hateful comments like problematic double standards, perpetuated anti-gay stereotypes, really personal attacks that claim that people who support more inclusion are insecure with their own sexuality, and lots of rude name-calling among other things… And you really want to try to act like there aren’t bigoted comments anywhere in that massive thread, also ignoring that some were already deleted?

This was originally in reply to someone else who accused me of making false accusations of bigotry, but I’m raising this to the newest page since some vocal people are still acting like the forums don’t have a problem with regards to toxicity that isn’t just criticism about the game itself; there are still many visible instances of bigotry in some popular threads.

[Darthgummibear]

It doesn't matter which is more harmful. Both are harmful. You can disagree without "shutting down people." Just because I think that normal mode is fine how it is because I and many others like me have no intention of progressing beyond normal doesn't mean that I don't respect other players' preferences for harder content. I just think that they're better off in Savage and Ultimate, where they are right now.

Because I know from my WoW experience that when we don't speak up, stuff changes out from under us. Look at where Blizzard is now. They're not even putting dungeon finder into WotLK Classic because I was laughing back when a vocal minority insisted that it was destroying the community. They took out flying in WoD because some ground pounders insisted that flight ruined the entire game. Once the genie leaves the bottle, there's no putting it back. I've learned that if we want the genie to stay right where it is, we need to speak up in support of it.

As a WoW veteran myself I have seen a lot of design choices over the past several months indicative of a direction that will take the game down the exact same disastrous path. I'll be damned if I'm gonna just stand here and not fight it every step of the way.

[Vryn]

This was originally in reply to someone else who accused me of making false accusations of bigotry, but I’m raising this to the newest page since some vocal people are still acting like the forums don’t have a problem with regards to toxicity that isn’t just criticism about the game itself; there are still many visible instances of bigotry in some popular threads.

To be fair, you make it relatively easy when you do it to them first by threatening them repeatedly with ToS harassment violations, demanding that people should respect you for no other reason than your existence and that people should agree with you 100% or they are an immoral person worthy of your ire.

If people are being mean to you, the obvious question is what did you say, and some of us have rather funny receipts.

[Deceptus]

Well, FF16 is finishing up so hopefully we can get the A team back on this game.

[Greyhawk]

Well, FF16 is finishing up so hopefully we can get the A team back on this game.

I really don't believe this. The poor design decisions fall on the Director and the board, if they are consulted about it which I am sure they are. It's not on the developers, they are just given marching orders. Besides, 16 will undoubtedly still have bugs to fix, patches, etc. and they will need the dev for it.

Bad housing design, class balance, job updates, etc. all line up with who is in charge. They make the decisions, good or bad.

As far as the original question - what has gotten into people lately - It might be that they are fed up with the decisions in the game that they love to play so much and don't want it to wither and die. Unfortunately, no one of importance comes here to read what needs to be said, but I do agree that how its said has been a constant reminder in development which is the very reason not to come here and read - the toxicity of the forums/reddit are out of control. Development and Management wouldn't have an issue reading feedback, but why should they even bother in its state? Yes, people are frustrated. Yes, people are angry (and some of it rightly so). But it should never resort to the amount of hate that appears here. Feedback doesn't have to be positive/negative. It just needs to be respectful. Even I have to bite my tongue to keep from saying what's on my mind at times. Sometimes it slips, but in no way is it threatening or to the level it has been lately here.

[Vryn]

Population increase is the likeliest culprit. This game saw a surge of popularity last year. Becoming the #1 MMO in the world brings extra scrutiny, higher expectations, and more hate. Lots and lots of hate. Primarily from its own playerbase.

They will say things like, "We have a right to express our opinions." And while that's true, the vitriol on the forums has been over-the-top and hilarious. Fortunately, this game also has a large Japanese playerbase, and that's where I go to gauge the actual state of the game. Certainly not these forums, which outside of the Lore section, suck pretty badly.

I would say the main culprit is age and poor planning. As time goes on, problems arise. Content is no longer as good as it once was. As philosophy and demands change as the players leave and enter the community, the main point of contention I have seen that causes toxicity is Square Enix's inability to quickly resolve issues of their creation. Such as Hrothgar and Viera Hair Styles.

It is an excellent example of how live services operate compared to commercial SAAS applications produced by a company such as Oracle or Microsoft. These hairstyles are essential user experience issues for roughly around 10% + of your user base. That would consider players who play those races and people who want to play them. Then you also have significant sub-issues such as poorly implemented hairstyles such as the hairlines for Viera in 6.1 and the need for fantasia and lack of ears for Hrothgar.

It is only an example, but if a crippling user experience issue were happening for 10% of your userbase in any commercial company worldwide, its resolution would happen quickly. Usually within 1-3 quarters or 3-9 months after implementation because the product wouldn't make it off the ground if it had not been. However, you wait 2-3 years or 8-12 quarters for something as simple as hairstyles. The development team should have had plans to rectify once placed on the live servers quickly.

Now we all get that the game has other issues, but this is an example of bringing something to the live servers without properly planning to see the significant pain points rectified promptly. Yes, covid was a thing, but it's not just hairstyles, and this mentality in the team goes back longer than 2-3 years, and while yes, other companies do it, it's not an excuse. Patch 6.1 was a maintenance patch for systems and content, which should have been maintained 6 - 8 years ago. Such as revamping older dungeons, a new PVP mode, and a few extra glamour plates. Since this wasn't done for eight years, we are now stuck in a situation where the overall patch is tarnished because of poor implementation, content being worse than previous iterations and not listening to customer feedback regarding the core mechanical gameplay of particular roles and classes such as healer and samurai who got a buff in the most recent patch notes instead of just reversing the overwhelmingly unpopular change.

This inability to consider how established players feel in your game is a direction we have seen the team go as they strive to make the game more solo and new player friendly at the expense of the established userbase and people who already give you their hard-earned money. The game developers have a fiduciary duty to take on the wishes of the userbase as they are stakeholders in the game, and they are ignoring their will for players who don't want to play the game-turning FF14 from an MMO to an RPG with online elements. We already have far better games in the market which provide this service with many more diverse options at their disposal. Want to hunt monsters with friends? Monster Hunter World is there for you. Want a challenge? Then play Elden Ring. The game is trying to cater to a different market than initially intended, so of course, players who are invested will lash out because they feel like their investment is at risk.

There are only so many excuses you can make over the game's lifetime for a particular subject. If it's taken a fortune 2000 company that made 2.4 billion dollars last year alone to fix, we have an issue because it shouldn't take one year, let alone 8, for a glamour rework, hairstyles, an engine overhaul etc. So while yes, there are reasons for this, you are paid six-figure salaries to fix those issues within a reasonable manner because no one in their right mind can say that it's right or just that two races can't wear hats 2-3 years on or that the majority of the player base can't participate in an advertised end game activity such as housing.

The game developers are lovely people; however, action speaks louder than words, and they can write all the Loadstone or video apologies with crocodile tears in the world, but you have had eight years and a fortune that could feed a small nation that is comparable to the GDP of an African country. As time goes on, this game should be getting more efficient and cheaper to run; your staff should be far better at handling issues meaning they have a higher quality and time effective response even as content increases. In addition, you should be hiring more people along the way.

Suppose the team is growing the game in terms of content that is outstripping the ability of the team to provide support. In that case, we have a significant issue, especially now that we are entering another 10-year journey which has already experienced three scandals, especially after how poorly Endwalker was received compared to Shadowbringers, as it's evident they combined two expansions.

FF14 is a global product, and therefore, the opinion of the globe matters, not just in Japan. While the Anglosphere and others may be more brutal in their criticism, it's far more helpful than a shower of compliments.

You need to be speeding up production, not slowing it down and if you have staffing issues, system issues, engine issues etc. You need to fix that within 1-2 years because you can't expect people to stay. Maybe that's why you are more comfortable telling people to leave because any designer who doesn't want people to have the best experience in their world and spend as much time willingly is not a designer worth their salt no matter their accomplishments because your only as good as your last patch.

[Ramesses]

The forums these days.... Hm.... I almost miss the troll post spam.... almost.

Let's see....

1) Taking a game so seriously that you insult other people over it
2) Being condescending, insulting, and/or overly aggressive to people who do not share your opinion or dare to be positive/negative

????

Yikes. maybe the stress has gotten to people with all that's going on in the world, which, yeah understandable, but jiminy Christmas, everyone here needs to take a step back and relax.

Housing, glamour, job balancing, etc etc needs work, yes, but that doesn't excuse spewing vitriol at each other.
The people on this forum are not your enemies, they are fellow human beings who want to play this game and have fun, just like you do.

Please, try to be kind to each other.

Well said-- and I'll add my +1 the 87 Likes already garnered on your post.

To be honest, just grab your drink, tea, refreshment of choice-- relax, chill-- and watch from the sidelines. Trust me when I say there is a massive majority of veterans already doing just that-- you need to smile, watch the trolls do their thing and be entertained.

Ironically, I posted about this a while back-- and as said before, all these vile shenanigans on the forums won't stall the momentum that FFXIV already has in place. Again-- I repeat-- there are several discords, reddits, blogs/vlogs, you tube channels and community efforts out there that continue to help promote the game while providing critical solid feedback (with suggestions) to the Devs.

Here's a hint-- when you carefully think about it, it helps you underline the reason why most vets, long-time streamers, and social media artists related to FFXIV do not post here on the official forums. In addition, it's no coincidence that Yoshida-san already gave a global plea for people to be more tolerant and kind to one another-- and I reckon the next phase is already in the works, which is for a more stringent approach to moderating the forums.

Simple put-- an excessively toxic forum is bad for business-- and the Board won't tolerate that in the long run. Like I said-- relax-- and watch the sad souls continue to waste their energy doing their thing.

[Lauront]

Yeah, like the OP sticking tags like "whining" on threads she dislikes.

Please, try to be kind to each other.

[Vryn]

Well said-- and I'll add my +1 the 87 Likes already garnered on your post.

To be honest, just grab your drink, tea, refreshment of choice-- relax, chill-- and watch from the sidelines. Trust me when I say there is a massive majority of veterans already doing just that-- you need to smile, watch the trolls do their thing and be entertained.

Ironically, I posted about this a while back-- and as said before, all these vile shenanigans on the forums won't stall the momentum that FFXIV already has in place. Again-- I repeat-- there are several discords, reddits, blogs/vlogs, you tube channels and community efforts out there that continue to help promote the game while providing critical solid feedback (with suggestions) to the Devs.

Here's a hint-- when you carefully think about it, it helps you underline the reason why most vets, long-time streamers, and social media artists related to FFXIV do not post here on the official forums. In addition, it's no coincidence that Yoshida-san already gave a global plea for people to be more tolerant and kind to one another-- and I reckon the next phase is already in the works, which is for a more stringent approach to moderating the forums.

Simple put-- an excessively toxic forum is bad for business-- and the Board won't tolerate that in the long run. Like I said-- relax-- and watch the sad souls continue to waste their energy doing their thing.

I would agree with you on the majority of your point but I would say an aggressively toxic forum is the result of a bad business and if the board wants to take action as it did in 1.0 by shutting them down then it is telling of the state of the game. The official forums should be your radiation card and if it goes colourless and then green you need to seek medical attention and fix the issues quickly.