Ok so looks like people are still taking advantage and getting multiple houses.

[Shibi]

On the submarine issue, I wonder if the easiest change is just making fuel non-tradable. Genuine FCs won't be affected and can retain the needed benefit of being able to fund their operations, but the more solo FCs someone has doing it, the greater the cost and larger the effort.

Put in a 30 day requirement to buy the non-tradable tanks. Or better, make all tanks in inventory dissolve if someone leaves an FC with any.

A housing primal would need to grind many millions of GC seals a day to buy all that fuel, rather than just buying up people's spare fuel cheaply and transferring it around.

[worldofneil]

I wonder if the easiest change is just making fuel non-tradable. Genuine FCs won't be affected

I can't speak for other FCs, but I know ours would be affected. Specificially because the people using the submarines don't necessarily have permissions to spend company credits to actually buy the fuel.

Right now fuel is purchased for them and placed in a company chest for them to use as needed. If there was no way to trade the fuel that would forces the only people using the workshop vehicles to also have permissions to spend company credits.

If the company credit usage could be restricted to certain things only, or limit how much could be spent in a time period, that might be less of an issue, but as it is right now anyone with FC company credit access could empty out an FC so such things should be restricted. The person themselves might be trustworthy, but whos to say they use two factor authentication? Or maybe just outright fall for phishing scams...

[Shibi]

I can't speak for other FCs, but I know ours would be affected. Specificially because the people using the submarines don't necessarily have permissions to spend company credits to actually buy the fuel.

Right now fuel is purchased for them and placed in a company chest for them to use as needed. If there was no way to trade the fuel that would forces the only people using the workshop vehicles to also have permissions to spend company credits.

If the company credit usage could be restricted to certain things only, or limit how much could be spent in a time period, that might be less of an issue, but as it is right now anyone with FC company credit access could empty out an FC so such things should be restricted. The person themselves might be trustworthy, but whos to say they use two factor authentication? Or maybe just outright fall for phishing scams...

Still a number of ways to do what could be an elegant solution without needing to remove the original purpose of the system - earning money for a genuine FC to fund their needs.

As I said;

...Or better, make all tanks in inventory dissolve if someone leaves an FC with any....

Which would certainly allow your FC chest transfer method to keep existing as it does with bound furniture. Or just remove the roleplay of mammet and make the fuel come from FC credits automatically, which might be even better. Send a sub out, and the FC credits are reduced by that amount, be it 900 credits or 2,100. If the credits are not there, then the subs don't travel.

The option is to give in and let the cries of "nerf the loot" - which come from people wanting to stop housing shortages really - take away from genuine FCs. I'd rather find a solution for genuine FCs to keep it. Making fuel non-transferable still seems to be a way.

It's progressively harder to keep a large sub pen, if you can't buy the fuel for gil.

[Besame]

On the submarine issue, I wonder if the easiest change is just making fuel non-tradable. Genuine FCs won't be affected and can retain the needed benefit of being able to fund their operations, but the more solo FCs someone has doing it, the greater the cost and larger the effort.

Put in a 30 day requirement to buy the non-tradable tanks. Or better, make all tanks in inventory dissolve if someone leaves an FC with any.

A housing primal would need to grind many millions of GC seals a day to buy all that fuel, rather than just buying up people's spare fuel cheaply and transferring it around.

Fuel is the least of my effort and cost. I basically am the only one running my FC and have no problem fueling my subs. Stop worying about FC workshops that are not bot run, they are not affecting anyone. Then it is up to slacker SE to get rid of bots and gil sellers.

[Shibi]

Fuel is the least of my effort and cost. I basically am the only one running my FC and have no problem fueling my subs. Stop worying about FC workshops that are not bot run, they are not affecting anyone. Then it is up to slacker SE to get rid of bots and gil sellers.

You clearly missed my point.

I am not worried about them at all, but there are a lot of people foaming at the mouth and thinking their existance means no housing. They believe if you nerf fightclub they'll see houses magically appear for everyone - unicorns and rainbows all over.

I want to give them an optional target rather than crying for nerfs - coz SE love monkey paws.

Making fuel non-tradable, by whatever reason won't affect a genuine FC in the least. Credit generation is more than sufficient there with normal play. You know it, I know it. Even 2 or 3 FCs isn't hard tbh.

But the more sub pens one owns makes it harder, and harder, and harder.

It will never stop the OF conspiracy theorists in their search for the real bogeyman of housing, but it might stop SE killing off subs to appease them.

[Besame]

You clearly missed my point.

I am not worried about them at all, but there are a lot of people foaming at the mouth and thinking their existance means no housing. They believe if you nerf fightclub they'll see houses magically appear for everyone - unicorns and rainbows all over.

I want to give them an optional target rather than crying for nerfs - coz SE love monkey paws.

Making fuel non-tradable, by whatever reason won't affect a genuine FC in the least. Credit generation is more than sufficient there with normal play. You know it, I know it. Even 2 or 3 FCs isn't hard tbh.

But the more sub pens one owns makes it harder, and harder, and harder.

It will never stop the OF conspiracy theorists in their search for the real bogeyman of housing, but it might stop SE killing off subs to appease them.

The "target" we all need to focus ire, finger pointing and a push to change clearly needs to be the inept SE not the players that own FC/personal houses, they only did what SE allowed all these years.

[Shibi]

The "target" we all need to focus ire, finger pointing and a push to change clearly needs to be the inept SE not the players that own FC/personal houses, they only did what SE allowed all these years.

I agree, A serious question for you: "Do you think they will any time soon?"

[Besame]

I agree, A serious question for you: "Do you think they will any time soon?"

Absolutely not at this time. There is not enough monetary or reputation pressure from the players worldwide. We in NA especially are bothered by the lack of follow through, not so much it seems in other areas. I am pretty sure that if there was no penalty for not entering a house or FC, people would be more likely to go like 3 on, 4 months off on their sub costing a huge loss of steady income. I certainly would be in that on again, off again group All we can do is keep applying pressure or seek out something new if we are displeased or frustrated. After all, if you don't have a house, what can you lose if you unsub off and on?.