Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[ValkyriaCrystalis]

Apart from the general crap I've seen aimed at Hrothgar in general, the stuff I personally had to deal with were:

- Being excluded from my own former FC's events and screenshots with them for playing Hrothgar because they themselves didn't like Hrothgar
- Being blamed for "enjoying Hrothgar, a race that had stolen Male Viera"
- Some random guy in PF just trash talking me and another friend of mine the moment we walk into E5S for being Hrothgar
- Comments about being a furry. Which, okay sure, I am, but still not really something to just randomly trash talk people about?
- My personal favourite: being excluded from an RP venue and accused of being a zoophile. Completely unprompted. It was not an ERP place at all, it was just casual. They just didn't trust Hrothgar and Lalafell players.

Omg, people can really get crazy
I’m sorry you had to endure such things!

[RyuDragnier]

Pretty much that it should have been male viera instead of hrothgar, blaming hrothgar and hrothgar players for the exclusion of male viera at the time... Hrothgar players probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

Oh I remember that nonsense. I still find it stupid because Yoshi-P himself said that Hrothgar was always on the table, Viera was the last second addition.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Apart from the general crap I've seen aimed at Hrothgar in general, the stuff I personally had to deal with were:

- Being excluded from my own former FC's events and screenshots with them for playing Hrothgar because they themselves didn't like Hrothgar
- Being blamed for "enjoying Hrothgar, a race that had stolen Male Viera"
- Some random guy in PF just trash talking me and another friend of mine the moment we walk into E5S for being Hrothgar
- Comments about being a furry. Which, okay sure, I am, but still not really something to just randomly trash talk people about?
- My personal favourite: being excluded from an RP venue and accused of being a zoophile. Completely unprompted. It was not an ERP place at all, it was just casual. They just didn't trust Hrothgar and Lalafell players.

I had a similar experience trying to play DnD. At the time I dont think they had playable Beast Races (that or it was hidden from me) and I wanted to try and play a Gnoll.
Got bashed with "no furries allowed"
And pretty much just became excluded from my "friend group" because I like to play a Beast Race. Which lead to other "jokes"

It is a sad but real thing that many Furries or Beastman Enthusiasts have to deal with

[Caurcas]

To be fair the furry fandom at large has given ample reason for those outside to generally avoid them.

[Senn]

Apart from the general crap I've seen aimed at Hrothgar in general, the stuff I personally had to deal with were:

- Being excluded from my own former FC's events and screenshots with them for playing Hrothgar because they themselves didn't like Hrothgar
- Being blamed for "enjoying Hrothgar, a race that had stolen Male Viera"
- Some random guy in PF just trash talking me and another friend of mine the moment we walk into E5S for being Hrothgar
- Comments about being a furry. Which, okay sure, I am, but still not really something to just randomly trash talk people about?
- My personal favourite: being excluded from an RP venue and accused of being a zoophile. Completely unprompted. It was not an ERP place at all, it was just casual. They just didn't trust Hrothgar and Lalafell players.

Edit: This was both in-game and on discord. It's why I mostly just stick to Hrothgar-only groups now.

Oh wow... That's absurd. I've never seen that ingame, but then again, I don't play hrothgar. That sucks dude.

[Midareyukki]

To be fair the furry fandom at large has given ample reason for those outside to generally avoid them.

I won't deny it. There is A LOT that even furries themselves think "not even FF14 modders are this degenerate". But it does have its cooler side, and like I keep saying, they have come together to help members of the community before. Such as getting them houses or helping them pay off health debts. Most older furries are wary about how widespread it's become, not because it exposes how weird it can get, but because it can attract some really unwanted attention and make the community get crap for stuff it's unaffiliated with.

Still not a thing to go around crapping on other people for. Especially not from a game that prides itself on its Miqo'te waifu and its most recent Miqo'te token boyfriend.

[reivaxe]

I think the "-phobic" and "bigot" labels are a step too far, but there's no denying that making the cute/sexy furry races female and the buff/brutish characters male is a rather gender-essentialist viewpoint.

I mean, I get it; I'm gay for pretty cat and bunny girls, but if a player wants to be an effeminate cat/bunny boy or a hulking giant/lioness that looks like she can benchpress a tank, they should have the option.

The cries of "Homophobic!" were nothing more than a sign of the times, where people screech about hate and violence to get what they want.

Very silly in this cast, because anyone with eyes could tell that Hrothgar males were gonna be the gayest thing added to this game. People forget that gay comes in many forms, before Hrothgar Roebros were the gayest male group.

Hey guys, femhrothlover666 here with some more hopium to fuel your femhroth desires.
You know how Yoship is a fan of WoW? I did some research on their beast races and found that both the worgen and tauren males have massive hunched backs while their female counterparts have a more straight posture.

No one likes "the hunch" and a hunch would murder any female form from a design PoV so that's not happening.

Despite what some would have you believe, the Bozja Queen is a good example of what to expect. Tall, upright, attractive, feminine form.

To be fair the furry fandom at large has given ample reason for those outside to generally avoid them.

Yeah, many people who would be considered furry don't openly associate with the fandom for this reason. The fandom lacks gatekeeping and logically gets a bad rep for it. I've seen furry artist on twitter actively block and ban people who fallow them who they notice ALSO fallow Zooaphile artist or ask for Zoo commissions.

Pretty much that it should have been male viera instead of hrothgar, blaming hrothgar and hrothgar players for the exclusion of male viera at the time... Hrothgar players probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

Which is funny, because we know now that part of the reason they did this was because "Well, Viera are ALREADY female only, so we can get away with it seeing as people wouldn't mind as much!".

They shouldn't have released either race until they figured out a way to make them compatible with everything in the game or designed them in a way that would do that.

[Midareyukki]

Which is funny, because we know now that part of the reason they did this was because "Well, Viera are ALREADY female only, so we can get away with it seeing as people wouldn't mind as much!".

They shouldn't have released either race until they figured out a way to make them compatible with everything in the game or designed them in a way that would do that.

That's the thing though. It's become more and more apparent that they did that, and now that we're asking them to be more mindful and serious about this, it looks like they're feeling insulted for some reason.

Like... I'm sorry for enjoying your content I guess? I didn't enjoy Diadem nor Blue Mage, yet that kept happening, so why is this such a contention point?

Yeah, many people who would be considered furry don't openly associate with the fandom for this reason. The fandom lacks gatekeeping and logically gets a bad rep for it. I've seen furry artist on twitter actively block and ban people who fallow them who they notice ALSO fallow Zooaphile artist or ask for Zoo commissions.

Yeaaaah that's the sort of people we really don't want in there either, believe me... Unfortunately you can't exactly gatekeep it, and there is no real moderation in it. Because unlike what people believe, it isn't a fandom, it's a subculture. It's a totally different beast. Like, people call it "the furry fandom", but it's older than you think and it isn't a fandom. It's made up of fandoms, though.

There are, however, stuff that does flag and monitor potentially-undesirable people, as well as regulation on places designed for them... within some variance (some websites are a hot mess, while others are pleasantly sober).

(Also, fallow is "barren land", follow is the word you want*)

[reivaxe]

That's the thing though. It's become more and more apparent that they did that, and now that we're asking them to be more mindful and serious about this, it looks like they're feeling insulted for some reason.

Like... I'm sorry for enjoying your content I guess? I didn't enjoy Diadem nor Blue Mage, yet that kept happening, so why is this such a contention point?

If you're talking about the hair drama, it's a case of "What can they do?" at this point.
They pooed the bed hard by releasing these races designed this way, and there's no way to easily fix that. No matter what they do, they're realizing people will throw fits over. You have years of people modding old Hair onto Hrothgar with the ears clipping and years of people asking for shared hair for both of these races, partly because "Hair=content rewards" so they don't want to be left out and also simply because they want ... more hair. But Hrothgar were only able to be made the way they are because YP told the team to NOT account for hair.

So now they're making Shared Hair work on something that was never supposed to get shared hair by making "cat wigs" because they know people are gonna rip them apart for how bad ear clipping would look, and it's still not enough. Players don't seem to understand that resources are not infinite and just go off on things as if it all happens in a vacuum.

Like the "Why we got FEWER unique gear sets in 6.0 than 5.0?!? SE dropping quality!" thread. Nahh brah, perhaps it's the fact that they keep banging out new character models like Male Viera and the upcoming Female Hrothgar after YP told us they were just about at the limit of races they could support in ShB well also giving us stuff at the rate we're used to. Seems like I'm the only one here who noticed that 2.1/ 3.1/ 4.1/ 5.1 all gave use at least 1 NEW hairstyle for reg races yet in 6.1 the only thing we got were Viera and Hrothgar getting some shared hair. Would be silly to not think these things are connected, regardless of how you feel about it.

Everything has a cost, not 1 single race in this game gets the amount of effort Hrothgar are asking for or would be required for things to shake out the way they want, and very few in the West try to think of things from the Devs PoV. So yeah, YP is right to basically lay out that "We either do things this way, and you get shared hair with no ears on a reg bases ... or we do unique Hrothgar hair, and you get very few and very rarely get them (Which could literally mean "1 new hair an expac" for ya. People don't seem to think of that extreme, but we generally get few hairs an expac for reg races in the best of cases)".

It might be seen as "feeling insulted" but people need to know that there will be drawbacks before they blindly scream for 1 thing over another. That's the interesting thing about Female Hrothgar, they would have had to be designing them with shared hair in mind because it makes zero sense to repeat these decisions that landed them in this mess. I have no clue wtf they're gonna do with their heads, I can only hope they pulled a "Furry Miqote/ Mithra" head so that they can use hair without a problem. People are prob not gonna blow a pipe over the females not having their ears on the top of their forehead, so reuse the Miqote system and skip that nightmare I say.

Yeaaaah that's the sort of people we really don't want in there either, believe me... Unfortunately you can't exactly gatekeep it, and there is no real moderation in it. Because unlike what people believe, it isn't a fandom, it's a subculture. It's a totally different beast. Like, people call it "the furry fandom", but it's older than you think and it isn't a fandom. It's made up of fandoms, though.

I use the word "fandom" because it's easier for people to grasp, I know it's a subculture with a spiderweb of interest all over the place. I've talked about the history of furries a number of times in this thread, they had a major moment a 2ish decades ago where the fight to gate keep and self moderate was beaten, smeared as homophobic and online circles blew up. Now there are no boundaries, when you push for radical acceptance you get all the good and bad that comes with it.

[Fukuro]

Pretty much that it should have been male viera instead of hrothgar, blaming hrothgar and hrothgar players for the exclusion of male viera at the time... Hrothgar players probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

Yeah I remember there being people throwing a fit because we got „sexy“ Viera ladies and bulky Hrothgar men. Some people took it so personal (because of stereotypes I guess?) to flame other Hrothgars players and the devs of being sexist and homophobes or something like that. Really dark and sad times.