New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[Midareyukki]

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

Players want it. Players have been wanting it for years now. He's got nothing to be annoyed about, Hrothgar have done absolutely nothing to incur such a response from him. We're not the Samurai in the DPS Roles tab. Nor are we the people who spammed :crab emoji: MALE VIERA :crab emoji: every darn stream.

And the snow beanie actually does look fine with ears if the modded version's anything to go by.

[Rathmir]

I might be the only one on this one, but I would be willing to wait until 7.0 if they came out and ask if we would be ok with us waiting for them to completely remake the models with customisation in mind. In this hypothetical scenario, we will get the data from our characters (Hrothgar) transferred into a general Midlander model, but given with the patch of 6.9 (maybe through the Moogle mail) a phial of fantasia, this will be given to everyone that has purchased Shadowbringers (cause only those have access to Hrothgar). So when 7.0 drops we will be able to turn the fantasia into our new revamped Hrothgar models.

This is a very drastic measure that would probably not happen, but I am curious if it would come to it and they see this as a better alternative. What would be your response, would you be ok with this?

If they would went with that, I'd leave that shitshow forever.

The more, why fiddling code inside a live enviroment? A proper development area would keep both separated as much as possible, if not all at best.

[Vahlnir]

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

Honestly, if they had kept the ears with the recently added hairstyles, I would have still been a little disappointed, though largely because none of them are really...for me, I guess. But I would have viewed it as a start. What we got was not a start. It was an abomination, and it was pretty insulting to boot.

[Allegor]

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

[Midareyukki]

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

Issue is that what suffices for them ended up taking a roundabout way. Like, yeah we can change our hairstyles to the one that shares our face style. But we can't change our hairstyle to other races, and to make it happen, they had to basically make new head models just to accomodate the change.
Meaning you change to a different head altogether just to change hairstyles. No other race has to deal with this.

It's clear that they don't have anything prepared for Hrothgar, but rather than being honest about it and just tell us "We're going to do stuff for you guys in this patch, and it will be this, this and that", they just up and scrounge up what little they have.

I really do wish we were taken a bit more seriously and not as the meme race. If he's so upset that we tell him we want stuff, then he should know how upset we are when he provides crap that just smells like he didn't care. I wonder how Yoshida would have felt knowing 1.0 players thought the exact same from their dev team.

We're not the counterpart to Vieras, Square. Stop thinking that. Viera already got their own counterpart and have to deal with problems you still refuse to fix. We're a completely different beast. One that's bigger than anyone else and the one you're deciding to ignore the most.

[SturmChurro]

Players want it. Players have been wanting it for years now. He's got nothing to be annoyed about, Hrothgar have done absolutely nothing to incur such a response from him. We're not the Samurai in the DPS Roles tab. Nor are we the people who spammed :crab emoji: MALE VIERA :crab emoji: every darn stream. And the snow beanie actually does look fine with ears if the modded version's anything to go by.

I mean, of course, but I'm saying he actually acknowledged player concerns. Back in ShB Viera/hrothgar were pretty much just not talked about... at all. I remember being there with many others on here, thinking if this next update would finally be the one we'd get our new hairs, or if we'd even get an update on the situation. It wasn't really until the end of ShB that either were even really talked about again.

I'd say, if he is annoyed, it has to do with the fact that their intention was most likely to leave these races as is after launch (minimal) support, and that's the only reason they were approved and made in the first place. It likely was never in the plans to spend too much time or resources on them.

Honestly, if they had kept the ears with the recently added hairstyles, I would have still been a little disappointed, though largely because none of them are really...for me, I guess. But I would have viewed it as a start. What we got was not a start. It was an abomination, and it was pretty insulting to boot.

In a weird way this might have been a blessing in disquise. If these hairs would have come out in an acceptable enough quality, probably only needed to have their ears still visible, these hairs might have been all hrothgar would get.. Granted, that really depends on how long it will actually take for them to do custom hairs for hrothgar, and what these custom hairs would be.

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

I'm honestly not sure if a lot of player feedback actually reaches Yoshida, however I question him thinking this is what players would want.. it seems quite unlikely, and that's if they came out with ears. In the state they were launching in, I wonder if he truly thought people would accept them, because anyone could look at those hairs and see how bad they looked.

[Midareyukki]

I mean, of course, but I'm saying he actually acknowledged player concerns. Back in ShB Viera/hrothgar were pretty much just not talked about... at all. I remember being there with many others on here, thinking if this next update would finally be the one we'd get our new hairs, or if we'd even get an update on the situation. It wasn't really until the end of ShB that either were even really talked about again.

I'd say, if he is annoyed, it has to do with the fact that their intention was most likely to leave these races as is after launch (minimal) support, and that's the only reason they were approved and made in the first place. It likely was never in the plans to spend too much time or resources on them.

No, I understand that, I truly do. I'm just pointing out that despite his intentions, player feedback clearly rose in support for these races. He should have at least expected it, and if he didn't, then he should have told people flat-out "No" by now rather than making vacant promises. This being a dev team that prides itself on listening to feedback when it can... yeah. Also that his intentions, if those are the ones he had, are kinda stupid ._. but that I'll admit is a personal bias.

I'm honestly not sure if a lot of player feedback actually reaches Yoshida, however I question him thinking this is what players would want.. it seems quite unlikely, and that's if they came out with ears. In the state they were launching in, I wonder if he truly thought people would accept them, because anyone could look at those hairs and see how bad they looked.

I don't know how 2Hroth got rendered in that state, approved, printed, placed in his folder and shown on-camera without people telling him "You're really going for that? Do you want players to get riled up?"

If this is the extent of their feedback, then

a) The community leaders really need to step it up rather than just show up here and dump what we already know. They're the ones who sift through feedback, after all.
b) People need to realize that the dev team isn't listening as much as they insist they do. Or at least not when it matters.
c) ...yeah, how did that go with 1.0?
d) They themselves need to start listening. Samurai changes? People here are having a moment, but it's still played heavily in-game. Housing? I'm guessing they're dealing with it? But other than that one Hrothgar in this thread that came out in support for these hairstyles, I haven't seen a single Hrothgar in-game wearing them.

Guess the only other way to voice our opinion is by sending bug reports on our characters xD "Hey, this isn't working as intended, nowhere did you guys tell us we would have Limited Races for this long, and it's clear that something is up. The work here was shoddy. Please review it. Properly this time."

Edit: I'll just link to this thread comment and say "Yeah they really should just hold the L and admit that it was a dumb expectation to have. It's not the first time, I've mentioned Diadem before. So him being upset that he now has to deal with fans demanding this? As dumb as he himself thinks the demand itself is dumb."

[Chikatsu]

Guess the only other way to voice our opinion is by sending bug reports on our characters xD "Hey, this isn't working as intended, nowhere did you guys tell us we would have Limited Races for this long, and it's clear that something is up. The work here was shoddy. Please review it. Properly this time."

honestly, that doesn't sound like a bad idea at this point.

[SturmChurro]

...

In the vacuum of them perhaps not having a 10-year plan, and the future of FFXIV in question, viera/hrothgar release state makes a lot more sense. It was stated, at the time, as being their "last chance" to add races. Looking at it from that perspective, having one last update to player races, a fan favorite (viera), and a beast race to round out the races was a good idea.

In light of their now being a "10-year plan" now, it doesn't look too good. I think the issue is now, that since they plan on maintaining and updating the game for so many more years, viera/hrothgar - especially hrothgar - design philosophy should have been changed, and it doesn't seem to have. Other than some minor updates, that seemingly take the least amount of effort and resources.


Yep, that's my biggest question. Who seriously thought it was a good idea to release this? Unless they just had nothing else, had been making promises, viera had gotten some hairs, so they had to do something for hrothgar, regardless on whether it looked good or not. To try and give the appearance like they were listening to players, and trying to update them. Maybe they thought releasing nothing would look worse?

I do think they need to listen to more player feedback, but other than something going viral across Twitter, it just doesn't seem to get to them - that or they are ignoring it.

[Midareyukki]

snippy

Yeah, in that time frame it did make sense. But even back then people assumed the races would be complete. Not with counterparts, but with proper hairstyles or at least the ability to change hairstyles and the ability to wear headgear. Yet nothing was done for three years, and instead we just heard last year "Oh, Male Viera are coming, Female Hrothgar will be added later". While the issues still lingered.

So now knowing that their 10-year plan MIGHT include us makes the situation feel awkward all the same. Keep in mind, they decided to update the older races. Rather than finish the ones they started. Why? :| Again, I mentioned this before but the idea that this overhaul will make a new, polished character-creation system that might fix the issues with races is not only erroneous (it won't have any impact on customization), it'll delay the problem. Meaning they'll add more and more content that will need to be fixed.

And it won't be 10 years. It'll be 8. Because we know the following 2 years will be spent designing female Hrothgar and updating the aforementioned ARR races. Two more years of being unequal to everyone else. Their design philosophy hasn't changed, despite us asking them to reconsider given this is their decision.

On the topic of changing hairstyles though... Something doesn't feel right. We've heard nothing for so long, they didn't even mention the Aesthetician. Then suddenly the Aesthetician works, but in a clearly poor state and the only mention of it being in the release Patch Notes? After this thread exploded? Did they seriously only work on that after we brought attention to it? Because I doubt they had this ready any sooner given the state it's in where they duplicated heads. That sort of thing only shows how much this thread was needed, and how much they need to stop ignoring it.

This would also explain why it seems they truly had nothing. They had nothing until the very end, and they didn't even bother to make it look presentable and cover that fact.

Maybe twitter won't work. And it's clear the OF's only served for Yoshida to tell some poor sod to come here and regurgitate his answer. Again, maybe protesting in-game with stuff we know will reach them works?