My message to DEVS about job balancing.

[aloneatsea]

Just recounted and verified 35 (also including Limit Break - probably should have noted that in the post - my bad).

Your profile says you're level 70 - maybe that's the disconnect? You get Meisui at 72, Bunshin at 80, Forked Raiju at 90, and Fleeting Raiju at 90.

Oh! But I counted Bunshin twice because I never removed it from the hotkey it originally was before they merged it with Phantom Kamaitachi - my bad! So Ninja was 35 before that merger but is now 34 - will update my post - apologies for the inaccuracy!

I'm Level 90 on another character. Just to make sure I'm not going insane, can I list them to see what you're counting that I'm not?

Spinning Edge, Shade Shift, Gust Slash, Hide, Throwing Dagger, Mug, Trick Attack, Aeolian Edge, Death Blossom, Ten, Ninjutsu, Chi, Assassinate = Dream within a Dream, Shukuchi, Jin, Kassatsu, Hakke Mujinsatsu, Armor Crush, Huraijin, Hellfrog Medium, Bhavacakra, Ten Chi Jin, Meisui, Bunshin = Phantom Kamaitachi, Forked Raiju, Fleeting Raiju.

That's my 26, and it bumps up to 32 including the six role actions. I'm counting Bunshin/Phantom and Assassinate/DwaD as one button because they, well, share a button.

[cjbeagle]

Spinning Edge, Shade Shift, Gust Slash, Hide, Throwing Dagger, Mug, Trick Attack, Aeolian Edge, Death Blossom, Ten, Ninjutsu, Chi, Assassinate = Dream within a Dream, Shukuchi, Jin, Kassatsu, Hakke Mujinsatsu, Armor Crush, Huraijin, Hellfrog Medium, Bhavacakra, Ten Chi Jin, Meisui, Bunshin = Phantom Kamaitachi, Forked Raiju, Fleeting Raiju.

The ones you listed:
1. Spinning Edge
2. Shade Shift
3. Gust Slash
4. Hide
5. Throwing Dagger
6. Mug
7. Trick Attack
8. Aeolian Edge
9. Death Blossom
10. Ten
11. Ninjutsu
12. Chi
13. Dream Within a Dream
14. Shukuchi
15. Jin
16. Kassatsu
17. Hakke Mujinsatsu
18. Armor Crush
19. Huraijin
20. Hellfrog Medium
21. Bhavacakra
22. Ten Chi Jin
23. Meisui
24. Bunshin
25. Forked Raiju
26. Fleeting Raiju

Role Actions:
27. Second Wind
28. Leg Sweep
29. Bloodbath
30. Feint
31. Arm's Length
32. True North

General:
33. Sprint
34. Limit Break

[aloneatsea]

The ones you listed:
1. Spinning Edge
2. Shade Shift
3. Gust Slash
4. Hide
5. Throwing Dagger
6. Mug
7. Trick Attack
8. Aeolian Edge
9. Death Blossom
10. Ten
11. Ninjutsu
12. Chi
13. Dream Within a Dream
14. Shukuchi
15. Jin
16. Kassatsu
17. Hakke Mujinsatsu
18. Armor Crush
19. Huraijin
20. Hellfrog Medium
21. Bhavacakra
22. Ten Chi Jin
23. Meisui
24. Bunshin
25. Forked Raiju
26. Fleeting Raiju

Role Actions:
27. Second Wind
28. Leg Sweep
29. Bloodbath
30. Feint
31. Arm's Length
32. True North

General:
33. Sprint
34. Limit Break

I see, so you're including generic actions as well as abilities. That's all good, I was just confused as to what was/wasn't being counted . Thanks for the clarification!

[cjbeagle]

I see, so you're including generic actions as well as abilities. That's all good, I was just confused as to what was/wasn't being counted . Thanks for the clarification!

Yep, anything that's on our hotbars because imo they should be thinking about pruning some of the role actions instead of job actions. I'm definitely not advocating for cutting Sprint or Limit Break, but I am counting them towards "button bloat" since they're taking up space on our bars. =P

[ThorneDynasty]

Tanks: Any chance we could get by without Shirk? Is Provoke not sufficient for agro management? If it isn't, could it be made to be? Maybe we could even get rid of Rampart and just give each tank a second charge of their job's unique mitigation cooldown.

Melee: Do we really need Second Wind AND Bloodbath? Maybe they could be combined and perhaps have multiple charges to keep the effective cooldowns the same?

Ranged: Do we really need Foot Graze AND Leg Graze? Maybe we could even get rid of both of them?

Casters: Does anyone actually use Sleep?

Healers: Does anyone actually use Repose?

The thing is that while these role actions are situational, some highly more than others, none of them really take up important real estate. You keep them mapped in inconvenient but consistent slots, because it's not like you need to re-learn where you keep them between jobs or press them often. Even sleep, repose and foot graze, although practically useless, will do nothing for my overall hotbar layout if removed. It's stuff like AST having a bazillion 120s/60s redundant cooldowns to track that make hotbars a mess.

[Fireon999]

I just saw 6.11 patchnotes and its obvious, that these mediocrities you calling devs just told us that they don't care about our feedback. Not a good choice in long term perspective. I wish them all the bad.

[MikoRemi]

Here's a thought...why don't they prune some role actions to fight button bloat instead of whittling away at the abilities that actually make jobs unique?

Tanks: Any chance we could get by without Shirk? Is Provoke not sufficient for agro management? If it isn't, could it be made to be? Maybe we could even get rid of Rampart and just give each tank a second charge of their job's unique mitigation cooldown.

Melee: Do we really need Second Wind AND Bloodbath? Maybe they could be combined and perhaps have multiple charges to keep the effective cooldowns the same?

Ranged: Do we really need Foot Graze AND Leg Graze? Maybe we could even get rid of both of them?

Casters: Does anyone actually use Sleep?

Healers: Does anyone actually use Repose?

Tanks; Honestly, I would rather just improve it. Shirk used to actually serve a purpose back in Stormblood, but its mostly useless now simply because tanks build up too much enmity. Shirk just needs to actually do its job a lot better...if not for tank management where sometimes I do indeed need the Shirk since I can't trust the other tanks often, but also to occasionally deal with a lazy DPS and Healer. Also Rampart being universal is great and useful, a second charge could be ok but unless they get moved up in levels, I'm not too sure entirely. I won't discount the possibility.

Melee; If Second Wind actually healed for a lot I'd like for both...but I don't mind this idea either since Bloodbath is amazing.

Ranged; Don't get rid of them, replace them. Palisade and Hawk's Eye(nerfed version) as a comeback would prove very fruitful. They already lack in buttons as is though so removing isn't a great idea so much as replacing.

Casters; It comes in handy in clutch but I really do wish it didn't break so easily...but it saved my Black Mage hide when the tank and healers fail their jobs. However bringing back Erase and maybe Drain as a role action with charges(or just one use on cooldown) being an OGCD and actually healing for a bit would be nice since Casters could use some buttons still but they would be much more useful.

Healers; Yeah I wouldn't mind the Stormblood Cleric Stance to come back honestly...

I would say a lot of the button bloat can be dealt with on the jobs themselves, like Reaper's Enshroud turning into Communio during the Enshroud State, or Black Mage's Ley Lines turning into Between the Ley Lines when the circle is up, or Machinist's Hypercharge becoming Heat Blast upon use. There are actual buttons that can be rolled together but bring about ways to bring in actual useful buttons. Removing buttons entirely though is not the best move, replacing with something useful is better to try and restore some sort of complexity with the game.

[Fireon999]

I have 2 weeks of subscribtion left, i think it will be my last days in this game.

[darkdyllon]

the thing is, a lot of buttons you never use, so you can not add that to your primary hotbar, like sprint for example or LB can be on an seperate hotbar.
PLD as was said is 35 buttons apparently.
but you don't need a lot of those buttons on an regular basis, like shield lob, shield bash, cover, LB and Sprint.
that is 5 buttons less to 30 buttons, which fit easily on an 2 hotbar controller setup (which should be standard) since 1 full hotbar on an controller is 16 buttons, 32 for 2 hotbars.
You could argue Interject could also be removed since it's not that often you use it in an fight, but more often than a stun for example.

the thing is, this isn't about button bloat or action bloat, this is about them not being able to balance SAM around Kaiten properly, that's why it's so often you see SAM in places on the DPS charts it shouldn't be.
No other job really has this button that buffs all weapon skills by 50%, combine that with crit/dh chances.
I can see where they're coming from, but either wait with removing it, or give us something in return.
This feels like an half assed attempt since now they're like "let's trinkle potency here and there and see when it falls in line" so SAM will be balanced without Kaiten in probably 6.35 orsomething.
Why can't there be an PTS for these sort of changes, so you got people testing the jobs potency before it goes live, that way they can be more drastic without going overboard.